Nuke8401

Tis, I am really new to precision shooting and "precision" reloading. I threw the F class thing out there but had no idea .179 was possible so I must be off the mark with accuracy expectations. I shot a few rounds through a friends gun (Rob O.) the other day. I think maybe I had a shotgun pattern but still 1 MOA at 100yards which is normally better that I shoot with my gun. So then he shoots a few rounds and has basically one hole. It was then I realized I couldn't shoot well enough to even zero his gun and most likely my gun either. I hope you find the right combination for your setup.

11# recoil springs seems on the light side with a 135PF. I think many/most are running 13#. You must be using a light striker spring to prevent unlock. Besides inspecting everything I would try a 13#. I've been using the same mags since 2006, I have replaced the springs once with wolff extra power.

So even though I said I was new to this game, looks like I'm not fare off from "dauntedfuture" and "redial". 38 superman, your post about being able to shoot 1/4" groups all day long with a bench rest gun with a 2 oz trigger after shooting BR for the first time in your life last weekend is still stuck in my throat. If that's the case you should take up F class as I think you would be killing those fellas. All in good fun, David E.(new guy to long range 308)

Hey Rob, I'm off tomorrow and plan to head to the range in the a.m. I could stop by and take those scopes/rifles off your hands and try to sight them in for ya while you're at work! It does sound like the new Vortex is impressive. David

On the same token looking at it from a mechanical perspective, if all your rounds are mechanically the same the result should be a given accuracy (.5 MOA, 1.0 MOA, 1.5 MOA or 5 MOA) not 4 great (.5 MOA) and one/two flyers. If you verify all your loads are equally produced the result should be consistent/equal, be it good or bad. There is much discussion about the 1 MOA all day long but for that one flyer and the cause of that one flyer. In any case, it sounds like you are ahead of me in the Precision Rifle game. Good Luck! David E.

Just so happens I have a 308 savage I have been practicing with for my first PR match coming up in Aug. I was getting groups like you discussed, 3-4 shots touching or almost one hole and a flyer or two. After much reading and watching the SnipersHide online videos I now think I am the weak link; NPA, body position, recoil management, follow-through. I don't know what your rifle shooting experience is besides what you stated. I have some 3-gun experience, 10" MGMs out to 400yds or so and while not anywhere near a great pistol shooter (SSP MA) I do have some abilities but my precision shooting skills apparently leave a lot to be desired. Just asking, do you shoot other rifles better than this one? If so, then OK it's the rifle/load. If not? David E. Maybe ROB O. Team Blaster will chime in. Knows more about 308 PR than????

I have leave the clamp on mine and use a simple swivel stud screwed into the center hole, some washers to time it and red Loctite. When installing the extension tube I tighten the coupling first and then thread on the tube leaving it 1/2 turn from hand tight and then install the clamp. So on my gun the clamp has no effect on slug POI from cold to hot. Thanks to Dan S. for the 1/2 turn info. David E.

From my little bit of RO/3-gun experience there seems to be some good improvements/choices for "long range" targets that are easy to call and don't require resetting/painting between shooters. I think the combination of people with a lot of experience and those new to the sport will result in new ideas that can work under demanding match conditions. I know I have had some prop and stage designs that looked good on paper but either didn't work at all or couldn't survive the match duration/conditions. Glad to see it! Sorry for the thread hijack, not trying to start an endless debate over target/stage/match design.

So what would be the max distance for these? Would a 10" hanging plate with these backers be a good substitute for an MGM flasher? Just wondering.

Dan and I talked about the backers, I just didn't think the corrugated plastic would last very long.

Great match Howard. Thanks to all the ROs that planned, worked, set-up and broke down. The match ran very smoothly which indicates to me much planning and preparation was done in advance and it was worth the drive (6 1/2hrs). A few things stood out to me: - no failed props/complicated resets/movers = consistent stage presentation for all shooters from first to last. - easy re-sets - the backers on the rifle steel; made them visible and seemed to last the entire match without attention. - The clay target hooks seem to be the way to go. What type of backers were you using on the steel? Did they last through 2 days? Will we be using them at FNH? David E.

I went from your same condition to shooting with no correction. I'm slightly nearsighted and so pistol and shotgun front sights are clear and scope adjusted for correction, works great. I also used a weak prescription for a while in both eyes and adjusted the scope diopter to compensate, worked fine but pistol front sight was not the best. I think as long as you can see the pistol front sight clearly seeing the target in perfect focus in not as important for pistol/shotgun. Rifle must be perfectly clear and compensating with both prescription glasses and the scope diopter should not cause any issues if you need correction.

Hi Dan, 325? Dang, seemed farther to me, must be my 1-3x and/or my memory is on it's way out!

I don't have my 34 in front of me but I'm thinking the spring legs resting in the grooves on the pins are what keep them in place not simple friction in the block or frame. Same as an AR hammer spring. Or I'm just wrong.

I watched Jerry M shoot through a port (in a covered wooden bunker) at FNH last year on our stage. You had to shoot either kneeling or crouching as the port was too high for reverse kneeling. Targets (MGM flashers) to 425 I think. This was the last shooting position for the stage. He put the rifle through the port touching the magwell and tight into the corner of the port. He of course shot a great time on the stage and I think had one miss with rifle. I shot the same way the day before and it gives you a stable, almost locked position. Many shooters, some very good shooters, had trouble with this stage trying to shoot kneeling with only their handguard on the port. Since it was the last shooting position you didn’t lose any time getting back out of the position.

Empty hulls, 2x 45cal (230gr = 460gr, 1oz/437gr= about 1oz) bullets Construction adhesive Add bullets and fill with construction adhesive Close top of hull and tape over until set. Presto, practice dummies! Still using the first 10 I made over 2 years ago from Wally bulk aluminum base

That's great for you but if their day to day CS doesn't improve the average guy will not go though the hassle and will just shop elsewhere. The lack of replacement parts made me put my 930 in the safe only to be used as a backup gun. I only wish the 930 I have was made as well as my early 70’s 500.

The thing is many of us would like to shoot irons/1x but we are so far below your skill level (and the others at the top 1-2% of the limited game) that the matches/targets (MGMs out to 450/less than 4 MOA) that are common now are just not doable for us. Yes, we could all spend 1-5 years/10,000rds shooting Highpower to become "real" rifle shooters but that still leaves out the beginner/intermediate/not perfect vision crowd from shooting limited. Just saying it would be nice if the matches were at least doable for an average guy shooting a red dot. Myself for example, I have finished between 50-80% of the winners score at the 3-4 national matches I have shot with a 1-3X and BDC (Leupold CQT) but shooting irons I couldn't hit half the long range rifle targets. Just doesn't make sense that the division that allows irons and especially 1X requires so much more skill than TO. Full size IPSIC (Larue) targets would be great. And I don't think anything is more of a turnoff for a new shooter than not at least being able to hit the targets. If a new shooter can hit them, even if really slow, they are much happier at the end of the match. The way it is now, Limited will be for those that either are very good or are gluttons for punishment. My 2 cents, Wannabe irons/1x shooter

So Mark, I'm guessing for distance you either turn off the illum or turn it way down to get the clearest reticle? How hard is it to go from full illum red to off? One button or like 27 pushes of the same button? 12" @ 550, the dot is almost twice the size of the target? But I guess you aren't using the dot past 200; but the BDC (gaps) for holds. So the 4/4.4 MOA center dot isn't really a problem? Like many I occasionally think about shooting limited but I have a hard time seeing a 12" MGM at 400 much less 550. Thanks, David

Does anyone have the Burris 1x? http://www.burrisoptics.com/ar1x.html Just wondering what the reticle looks like with no illumination. Looks like a prism sight with a BDC but the dot is 4/4.4 MOA depending where you look. Thinking about this as an option for Limited.

The point of my post was to inform eligible VETs of the opportunity/process. If you are interested in which classes are approved you can see the list at Sig's website. http://www.sigsaueracademy.com/VaFunding/ If you have a beef with the VA approving classes/courses I would suggest you take that up with them. Sarge, thank you for your service, It took all my strength to not flame on you. MODs if this post has no place on ENOS, please delete. Thanks, David E

Here is what I learned about using Post 9/11 GI Bill Educational Benefits for firearms training at the Sig Sauer Academy. There are only a few training facilities around the country that are VA approved so you need to check in advance with the facility and the VA. It is a simple process and with SIG you don’t have to pay them up front for the tuition. I got less than expected for “supplies” but it is prorated based on using a total $1000 amount for two “semesters” of coursework. Since the course was only one week/40hrs this does not equal much ($13.83). I also received money for “housing” which the VA bases on E-5 pay and the geographical area ($235.50). Here are the steps to using your Post 9/11 GI Bill: 1. Finding out the status of your benefits and your current amount used if any: - First you should create an account on the VA website to check your current GI Bill eligibility status: https://www.ebenefits.va.gov/ebenefits-portal/ebenefits.portal - At this website under the heading “View My Status” use the pull down menus “Education” and then “check Post 9/11 GI Bill Enrollment Status. This site provides an up to date accounting of your benefits and the amount of benefits used in months and days. If you are eligible for 100% benefit then you will start with 36 months. The 5 day (40) hours Sig Sauer “Patrol Rifle Instructor” course shows up as 40.0 Residence hours and cost me 5 days of VA eligibility which is a very good deal. I took two college classes for a total of 7 Distance hours and that cost me 2 months and 8 days! 2. How to use the benefits: - Contact SIG at least one month in advance and let them know you want to take a class using your 9/11 GI bill benefits. They will ask you for a “Certificate of Eligibility” from the VA. You must use the VA website: https://vabenefits.vba.va.gov/Vonapp/default.asp to complete Form VA 22-1990; “Application for VA Education Benefits” You do need some information to complete the form. This is a link to the old hard copy version of the form you can use to gather info before you log into the VONAPP site. http://www.vba.va.gov/pubs/forms/vba-22_1990.pdf - After completing the online paperwork the VA will mail you a “Certificate of Eligibility” and you must send this to SIG. I scanned/pdf’d it and emailed it to SIG. I also brought a hardcopy with me but they didn’t need it. 3. Timeline for payment: - I attended the course 11/11/2013 to 11/15/2013 and the electronic deposit to my checking account posted on 12/24/2013. Right after the class I called the VA and asked them if I needed to submit any paperwork such as receipts for hotel, meals, or supplies and they said no. They said the amount paid would be based on the length of the course and that the “school” needed to submit the paperwork. - So the VA paid to the tuition in full $1000 (directly to SIG) and gave me $249.33.

I haven't kept up with the new rule book, can you point out the paragraph that states this? Thanks, David E.

My expectation/normal response when I hear an RO say something durring my COF is too stop because 1. The only time I expect him to say anything is when I am breaking a safety rule, 2. At a minimum the cost to my score will be more if I have to process what he says vice continue shooting and just take any penalties.New shooters, I'm for helping them all I can, if they want it, before or after the buzzer. If I see a RO coaching before it's my turn to shoot I make it a point to tell him NOT to coach me it's only a distraction. Unless it's says coaching is ok in the rules, I don't think there is any place for it above club level matches.

I have the Nordic +7 and with a clamp I see no POI change with slugs. I tightened the nut and left the tube maybe 1/4 turn from tight. Functions great with the Nordic spring at 10" past the tube.