RIIID

Where are the moderators at, this thread is about politics shut it down Rich

Have you added a mag well to the gun? Rich

What's this .45 you guys are talking about, is it a new wildcat cartridge? From the sounds of it, it must be a looser all the way around. Rich

That's because Rob is TGO. He can call it whatever he wants. (shhh we don't listen to him anyway) DITTO Division, class, whatever... I'm a shooter not a rocket surgeon!!! Rob I thought you were a brain surgeon or was that a short order cook. Carry the naught, Rich

That's because Rob is TGO. He can call it whatever he wants. (shhh we don't listen to him anyway) He's no Jackie Gleason or Wayne Gretzsky. Rich

I figured by now someone would have corrected Rob, almost instantly when somebody new calls a Division a class they are jumped on about it. I guess I have to be the one, Rob it is a DIVISION not a Class. We all know your old and set in your ways so try to keep up. Rich

I think you are thinking small, how about 7" and 8" barrels and slides. Rich

Will this require frame modification? Why 2011 MSH? Yes, the frame will have to be modified. The problem with most mag wells that require no frame mods is the well angle is too flat. When it's too flat there isn't a funnel effect, the mag can hit the side of the well and it isn't automatically directed into the frame. To get the funnel effect the mag well will add too much height to fit into the box. The mag well can be used with any type of main spring housing. With the design I'm doing the profile can be used as is or changed to fit the shooters needs, closed front, open front, decrease the width, open up the angle more, change the height,...... Rich

Well I was on the USPSA site and got into the store section and guess what I found, USPSA is selling Production approved glock trigger kits. I guess that item will have to be removed come 2013, we wouldn't want the organization selling illegal items. Rich

There is another mag well design going to be released very soon. This is one variation of the proto types being done. Rich

One thing that has been brought up is the BOD should post an agenda prior too, it was done in the past but seemed to have stopped. The next question should be who sets the agenda the Area Directors or the Pres.? I think it should be both. Rich

"The trigger weight restriction has been discussed for many years as a way to inspect Production pistols quickly and consistently." We already have a way to inspect Prod. guns it's at the chrono stage, we don't have to invent a way. Trigger work has been legal since day one, what would checking a pull weight do to find an illegally modified gun. A gun could pass the pull test but it could also be illegally modified. If nobody knows what to look for, the gun can continue to be used because it passed the pull test. Rich

"The rules have always made it clear that Production was a "you can't do this" division. Recall that the first Nationals in which Production division was recognized was called the "Factory-gun Nationals"... indicating USPSA's intent that it was for... uh... guns the way they came from the factory. Unfortunately, that "intent" hasn't ever become part of the "general understanding"." BG Bruce the problem is from day one the rules NEVER made it CLEAR( It may have been clear in your mind) it was a "you can't do this" Division. You have to remember when a new person joins USPSA all the info USPSA sends on this sport comes in the form of the Rule Book. There is no "Intent", "Spirit of", and "supposed to be" written in the Rule book. They don't have access to past copies of the Front Sight magazine nor would they go back and read past BOD meetings minutes(back in the beginning a lot of people didn't have computer access). USPSA has always had poor word choices for naming things, "Factory Gun" was a poor choice since most of the Lim-10 guns were tricked out Limited guns and revolvers are pretty much worked over in the trigger area also. So there was a mixed message Revo and Lim-10 had fully custom guns so Prod. must be the same. We shoot competitions and everyone is trying to do their best so we naturally seek out the best equipment. Rich

"Intent" is meaningless after eleven years, in that time frame Production has become a great success. It did so from the participation of the membership and that brought in the manufactures. The combination of the two has benefited USPSA greatly. Do you think Production would be as successful as it is today if from day one it was held to "box stock"? I could understand after the first year if the BOD wanted to rein in the drifting away from the "intent" but after eleven years it is way too late. If Production is left as it is today I can see it over take Limited in participation in the next couple of years. The idea that a 3# trigger rule is going to make it even more successful is ridiculous in my mind. Just think Open and Limited would be even more successful with a 3.5# trigger pull rule. Rich

The Heinie and Taurus are weld ups with the standard Bo-mar cut. Rich

Longer is pointless. Get one from Springer Precision that will allow you to use 1911 springs, lots of weight choices there. That what I run in mine.... To go out to the end of the slide adds 1 more ounce, pointless? A 5/16" rod would add 1/2 ounce plus. Rich

Lets face it when the 3 new Divisions were created there was very little support given to implement these except a "Factory Gun Nationals" by USPSA. The first year L-10 was scored within the Limited Div. and classification percentages were not used from major matches. USPSA just dropped these Div. on the membership and said have fun. Now after eleven years you want to go back to the original intent, it is way too late for that. Production evolved into what it is today, if the BOD doesn't like it they should have done a better job from day one. "Supposed to be" and "intent" can't exist now after eleven years of neglect from the BOD. I would say the membership like the way Prod. is right now by making it the third largest Div. we have by their participation. Rich

After the new year I will be updating my Work Order Pages, it will include the novak conversion. All one has to do is send in your slide with the Bo-mar sight cut checked off and it will get the conversion. Rich

obviously people with a financial interest in this wont like this new rule, but what part of the "production" division should people have to get $140 dollar trigger jobs to be competitive I will be doing the same amount of triggers at 3# as I'm doing right now that are lighter, it's not just the weight, it's the shortening of the movement of the trigger most people want. Money doesn't have anything to do with me being opposed to it. It doesn't solve any problems with Production it just creates problems. Rich

With the proper gauge it is - provided the competitor is the one who conducts the measurement in the presence of the chrono officer. It's easy - "Lift this fixed weight off the table while the hook on the weight rests on your trigger". While I speak only for myself, I agree on the issue of "staff workers measuring the same way" - which is why I will push to either have the competitor do the actual measurement, or be given the opportunity to repeat the measurement (and pass) if it does not pass when the chrono officer does it. Rob it doesn't work that way with triggers that operate off of a mechanical lever, the further down on the trigger the lighter it will be and heavier closer to the the pivot point. If the shooter does it they can lift it closer to the pivot and pass while it is lighter at the point where they pull the trigger. Some trigger profiles/safety shoes won't allow a pull from the center, the scale will slide off center and give a lighter pull. A proper gauge will have to be created that will test all of the different guns the same and be equal. I don't know of a gauge that will do it. I had a gun come in the shop for a tune up that was used at the B. Cup this year, it passed their gauge but it was way under their min. with three of my gauges. From the beginning trigger work has been allowed, if the intent was to use bone stock guns then no modifications should have been allowed from day one. We are 11 years into this Division and it is one of the most popular ones we have and now you want to tell the membership the intent wasn't to have sub 3# triggers, you are a little too late. I have done a few thousand trigger jobs that won't pass a 3# pull, a couple of my competitors have done more than I have so that adds another 4 or 5 thousand to the total that probably won't pass. The train left the station on the first day Production was started, so to create rules that are closer to the intent it was supposed to be on day one just doesn't work. The intent is gone, what we have right NOW is what the BOD needs to deal with not what was intended. Rich

It's time for the membership to voice their disapproval of the useless 3# rule for Production. This needs to be overturned before it goes into effect, this will simply be a nightmare for the chrono stage to test the varies triggers that are used. If a pull weight is good for Production then it should be just fine for the rest of the Divivsions, 3# straight across for all. Quit screwing with a Division that is working and popular, the Pres started this and does he even shoot Production. How many BOD members actually shoot Prod., do they even understand what they are doing. Rich

One of the first reasons to use an extended firing pin was to prevent primer flow from filling in the firing pin hole on Open guns. It prevents any unwanted debris from interfering with the pin strike on the primer. They give a more positive strike on primers without the risk of a light strike. I've been using Lim Cat firing pins for years, it is the best extended firing pin I have found. Rich

"Rich, how come you always refer to yourself in the third person? Isn't this what the queen does? Doesn't everyone know RIIID, canyon Creek and CCC are all you:) Just asking!" Rob Well Rob it all depends on which voice in my head is in control at the moment. RIIID, is the lazy good for nothing sloth who happens to own/work for Canyon Creek. Canyon Creek, is a business that provides services and products for the shooters who want the best. CCC, I don't know what that is. You left out another business/person that was started "Canyon Armament", IT will be manufacturing 1911's. Now that you are confused even more, send your Limited 5.25 to Canyon Creek and that lazy RIIID will install a stainless steel mag well on it. Rich (voice #1)

No BB guns, a pellet gun is the way to go. If you want him to work a little to shoot "Sheridan Blue Streak"(mine is 40 years old and still going). A side cock or break barrel pellet gun, I've got a Gamo "Extreme Hunter" that will do 1575 fps chrono'd. Too heavy for an eight year old even without the scope. There are a host of 1000-1200 rifles that he should be able to handle. Rich ps If you buy a gun without a scope and then add one on, make sure it is a scope rated for an air rifle. Air rifles are very hard on scopes.

I can't think of anything else that will ruin Production by going to a higher capacity oh wait I can think of something else. Rich