bikerburgess

the whole aftermarket parts argument has always baffled me, it seams like saying don't buy a Mercedes because you can get more parts for a Chevy. if it runs well what do you need the parts for?

My 9mm has over 27,000 on it. Still shoots tight groups. The beauty of the half-slide design utilized in the CZ's and Tanfoglio's is that you don't need to do all this extra stuff to make them accurate since the slide to frame junction near the centerline of the bore. CHA-LEE said he was getting 40,000 out of a top end, and I believe he would go through 2 top ends per frame if I remember correctly. And so the 2011 guys don't freak out on those numbers, I'm pretty sure at the time a top end cost was only a little more than having a new barrel fit to a 19/2011

We don't get much dust so no covers on ours, when it rains we use plastic clipboards that have a storage area in them and velcro the nook into the storage area so when you open the lid it shields the rain.

If you're replying to me I'm only talking about PS , I've never worked with EWS.Pretty much anybody can learn to input scores, takes a little more to setup a match, and a little more techy to setup the initial nooks and master Ok my bad, I thought you were saying it was harder vs EZwinscore

I disagree for me setting up the match in practiscore is way easier than EZwinscore

SS, is for those that like nostalgia and love the 1911 Revolver, for people that like revolvers and are confident enough in themselves to place that low in the overall standings L10, (in a free state) for those that have weird guns or just got a limited gun but like shooting and sharing stage plans with there friends in production Production, for those that like the extra stage planning and emphasis on accuracy Limited, for those that think they want to go fast but don't want to go top fuel fast. Open, for those that say Mama I want to go fast and or cant see the sights any more.

My answers bolded below After doing some reading, my impression is that the NST offers the best combination of price, daylight readability, and battery life. Discontinued but still available. Easy to root(-n-score-it). Until the android upload capabilities are fleshed out, we can synch to an old ios device for uploading scores. Etc. I agree, If we want to be serious about establishing full PS capability, we'll need 18 NST devices: 11 slaves, 1 master, and 6 long-term backup units (purchased now because they are available now and importantly, because they are cheap now). We'll also need a portable router and a used ios device. I would not use a NST as a master, its not that they cant do it its just a paint o enter shooters and set up a match on. we started with my 7" Samsung tablet and old iphone for uploading the files. we ended up buying a used ipad (full size) to do registration and upload scores. I would also suggest getting a blue tooth keyboard for the stats person to use during registration its easier to type on when you have lots of new shooters to enter (our monthly matches run in the 90's) We are discussing various perspectives: Does USPSA require paper back-up scoring at major matches that use PS? Yes (there is some debate about this but most RM's will demand it) Do most PS clubs routinely run paper back-up? Not locally to me 4 of the 5 uspsa clubs in my section are now paperless PS on a monthly basis 1 club is still using paper and EZwinscore After the match, do stats officers verify device scores with paper scoresheets before uploading to USPSA? Not in my experience, What percentage of USPSA clubs are currently running PS? Does anyone know? ? My perception after reading is that USPSA and PS are wholly separate entities. Correct? Yes, There is a belief here that USPSA will eventually require clubs to score matches with PS. Is that correct? If so, it seems unwise. USPSA receives scores in USPSA format. How the scores are collected and compiled is irrelevant. Am I missing something? I don't believe so, the BOD did approve PS for scoring matches and USPSA says they are not going to do anymore development or updates to EZwinscore so eventually that program will become obsolete. My perception is that there are no other tablets or readers available in the $55 range that match the NST's proven features: durability, readability, heat tolerance and battery life. Have I overlooked any? Not in that price range, there are several clubs I know that use $100ish android tablets like the Kindle with a color screen. these work well for them but are harder to read. the Ipad Minis are also used but they are significantly more expensive. My club uses the NST and I like that i payed less for them than some pay for the case they put on their ipads. I will say the NST has a couple of down falls, the touch screen is not great, it will "see" a rain drop and think that is a finger and you can't put them in a waterproof case because of the way the touch screen works our work around has been to use a box type clipboard to keep them in during rainy matches and we keep a rag in there to wipe any drops off the screen. Pros (PS on NST): Auto-fill during match registration, Eliminates hand-entering scores after match, Faster delivery of scores after match, Cool factor. yes nut the NST is not what you want to use for registration, also remember when yo ugo to PS you can import your EZwinscore database file so all the shooters info you already have will be in there the first match so you don't have to type it all even once. Cons: Expensive compared to paper, Requires fleet root & set-up, Requires training of RO's, Electronics will fail. Yes and No, yes something will eventually fail. that said I have had way less errors to update once the scores are posted now than I ever did with paper. In my case the PS has been a savings we run a 6-7 stage match and were having to print 100 score sheets packets for each match, that cost quite a bit that we no longer spend, we also used to pay someone to sit and enter scores all day now we don't. Is it possible to effectively run PS at a match on personal phones of appointed shooters? Does anyone do this? If you network personal phones to a range master device on a range router, are there security or privacy issues? Any workaround? yes its possible, iv'e heard of it being done, no I would not want to do that. the screens on phones are generally pretty small and handing someones phone around a squad is asking for trouble when it gets dropped and broken. from a security standpoint it would all depend on what information you have collected into PS names and USPSA numbers only is probably not a issue, e-mails and phone numbers could be more of a concern, scoring security is less of a problem because you are in control of what devices you pull scores from.

Minor to major scoring makes a decent difference in limited especially on classifier scores. Also did your practice (ore lack there of in my case) rutine change at all when you got your new pistol, even for a couple weeks when you first got it?

Cha Lee I agree that's why I posed the question. On another point it kind of shows how little the top shooters really worry about the gun. If Max is willing to campaign a plastic striker fired pistol (even one with a decent trigger) over a heavy steel DA/SA gun also from his sponsor then it kind of debunks the you need a xxxx pistol to be competitive myth.

Easier puts me in a bit of a quandary. My answer is probably but how much easier is the real question, I would have to think about it like this, how many hours or rounds of practice is the better gun equal to? I'm sure for me that I would do better with 20 min of dry fire twice a week for a couple months than I would with my no practice rutine and a better gun.

I had a thought about Max and the new 320 is max campaigning the 320 in production because its the best gun Sig makes for production or because Sig wants to promote that model? I ask because given the current trend in production division of heavy steel DA/SA guns wouldn't the X5 be a "better" platform?

there is not requirement to upload score to USPSA for level 1 matches, classifiers do have to be sent in though. the View individual results tab at Practiscore.com is only there if the scorers were uploaded from a iOS device, the androids don't create it. also the iOS devises now can also create the upload file for the USPSA website scores as well as the classifier file. (yes they are two separate files that need to be uploaded separately even from EZWinscore)

The next question is what is a "real" gun? The 2011 platform is the most popular in our sport and used by the top competitors in the divisions it fits. This is always used as "proof" that it is the best but what about Tanfoglios and CZs they both offer single action steel framed guns (thinking limited and open divisiins) that should hold their own with the 2011s or is it just polymer striker fired pistols that don't count as good?

I honestly believe it's 99% mental, if you like the gun more you will shoot it better, you may even practice with it more. As long as the guns in question reasonably fit the division they are competing in and the shooter likes it there is not enough difference to make a difference at most any level. I belive high limited at our last match was a guy shooting the wrong gun in 9mm with only 19rd mags. Second was a fancy gun also in minor. Open was a 2011 in 40 with a Glock in 357sig taking second. The competitive disadvantages in all those guns run way deeper than a nicer trigger.

I agree, I much prefer shooting my G20 than G22 with the same loads, I think the heavier slide soaks up some of the violence in the lighter guns recoil.

then so does an empty one,

I would be willing to bet those are brass, I find it most interesting that he made the slide heavier, how much money have people spent making them lighter?

I would assume wimpy but who knows

didn't some guy with a GLOCK beat Eric G and his heavy Tanfoglio at the Pro Am this year?

I have a similar email but it uses the word "may" in the phrase MAY NOT to justify it. and I find that sad.

Playing devils advocate here, please cite a rule or ruling for that (with or without the lead)

9mm You all ready load for it. You can get 170mm magazine extensions for it that should give you about 28 rounds. In either caliber the ports won't do very much (something yes but much no) also if you ever decide to get into multigun open division it would be a great gun for that

I see two issues coming up aging and again that I don't think are being directly addressed. One many seem to be saying adding a division is a nearly costless no down side proposition so why not just do it. My answer to that is yes and no, if adding a division is not a big deal then why don't we have 20 divisions, for compact guns, carry sized revolvers, old iron sighted open guns sub compact da only guns etc? Because there is a critical mass required for a division to be worth having (see the revolver division struggles of late) so of having 20+ divisions is obviously ridiculous, and i would say bad for the sport, then adding any divisions should be taken seriously. Second There are many proponents of a new division that want to make it a narrow as possible. The perported reason given to keep the division narrowly defined is to keep it cheep, eliminate a equipment race and create a level playing field. This sounds good till you look at what's happening in production division today. With the rise of expensive heavy steel framed competition specific "production" guns it can be argued that the biggest equipment race we have is in production division, so that part of the argument falls flat. We as competitors are our own worst enemy to keeping any division affordable , many of us are willing to spend vast sums of money in persuit of any advantage real or presumed. If containing cost and leveling the playing field is actually the goal then the only way to achieve that is through a spec class and I am pretty sure that would fly as well as a lead balloon. I still think if a new division is created it should be as broad as possible to cast the net wide and gather as many competitors as possible, then in the future if it grow to the point that it makes sense to break it up do it then. It would be better to have a combined optic division that in the future was split into a PO and SSO and a L10-O or whatever than to start so restricted it never gets going and dies

I shipped my ammo there a few years ago and it was either $20 or $30 for handling, it is based on weight and that shipment was about 35 lb. If I remember correctly.

Well that's more a personal issue than a institutional one.