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My point is that I want stages designed with this mind set but, based on stages I've shot, some don't believe that this is what 6 shot neutral means. Apparently any advantage to the 8 shot must be crushed so we get things like three shooting boxes with a 9-shot array at each with a mandatory reload between them so every one has standing reloads and is dumping rounds between positions. Crushing any 8 shot advantage also crushes the fun so the stages are bad for everyone.

These are good examples. How is the 5 plate rack "neutral" when the 6 shot guy has only one extra while the guy with an 8 shot gun has three? It is fun and "doable" with a 6 shot gun but it doesn't mean that there isn't an advantage to having two more shots. And for three paper targets the 8 shooter has the option of make up shots without reloading while the 6 shooter does not. And if a 6 shot gun has a clicker on a 6 shot array it requires a reload while it just means pull the trigger again on an 8 shot. I think changing the wording of the rule will really just make the rule match what is commonly going on and eliminate the weird artificial restrictions when someone does try to make a stage 6 shot neutral.

As mentioned in the Limited 6 thread it is almost impossible to make stages that are truly 6 shot neutral. It means shots limited on paper, no steel and manditory reloads between positions to eliminate carrying rounds. I would like to accept the differences and just have stages that are fun and challenging for either capacity. One option is to request a rule change from "6 shot neutral" to "6 shot friendly" and I would like to know if any of you like the idea. I am also looking for suggestions on how to simply and easily define 6 shot friendly. "No more than 6 shots required from a single position", "Can not require 7 or 8 shots from a single position", "Can be shot in a logical manner with 6 shot guns", ... What do you think???

Regardless of the outcome of Limited 6 I think that we should give up on the impossible requirement of "6 shot neutral" and change the rule to "6 shot friendly" using Cd662's definition "that a stage can be shot in a logical manner for 6 shot guns". That will not affect 8 shot guns and will still make it fun for Classic (and Limited 6) shooters. A 9 shot array isn't 6 shot neutral if it is advantageous to carry rounds to the next position, and this results in the artificial "9 shot array with a mandatory reload before the next position" which is clunky and isn't fun.

I would agree with that sentiment for major matches where there are tons of people in your division, but in local matches, where you shoot against the same people al lthe time, it can be very illuminating and helpful to track your progress against people in other divisions, especially if your division isn't heavily populated. My advice to the op, learn to shoot more quickly and more accurately and while moving. Pretty simple really, lol. As the "other" I was trying to poke a little fun at those who hate overall results and in real life I agree with motosapiens. A good shooter is a good shooter regardless of their division and if you improve relative to one of them you are improving. So to be clear, your brain will NOT explode if you look at the overall results.

Both. Look at how your points compare to the top guys' points and also compare your times to theirs. You are more or less down equally on both, particularly when you deduct the penalty points. For example, I frequently have the highest points on a stage but with a time closer to the bottom guys, so I clearly need to work on speed. I would shoot a few more matches to see if either points or times improve naturally as you are more accustomed to the environment and then see where you need to improve. It will also help to have someone video you so you can see where you are wasting time. And also let me be the first to tell you that you shouldn't look at the combined score as the human mind can't possibly process the results as if it was a straight up "run what you brung" match, and in fact it is so complicated and/or demoralizing that your brain is likely to actually explode. I feel jittery just from reading about your combined scores. edited for a more colorful analogy

I can definitely sympathize with that but I think I would rather tolerate that than have the stage designer start tossing in mandatory reloads or weird target engagement requirements just to make it 6 shot neutral. Let me reload when I want and manage my ammo the way I want. Really? I've never shot a stage where someone required me to reload to keep 6 shot neutral. 9 shots are 6 neutral. Three shooting boxes with a 9 shot array from each. Carrying rounds between boxes means one less reload for 8 shooters, so a mandatory reload between boxes is added. I'm not saying it's creative stage design but I have seen this.

And speedloaders. I have visions of 250 gr bullets loaded to 426 fps (105+ PF) in 45ar brass... I tried auto rim & speedloaders with mine, trying to shoot ICORE Classic with what I have, and couldn't get an accurate load that was long enough to load easily. With regular length .45s there isn't much left sticking out of the speedloaders and when I went long enough for something to go into the cylinder I got shotgun pattern groups. I was using Berrys 185 gr hollow base and went up to 140ish PF with no improvement. I didn't spend a lot of time chasing it down before I gave up, but it is something to consider..

Arizona revolver shooters - Phoenix Rod & Gun Club is having a special Intro To ICORE match on Saturday October 11th at 0800. To allow revolver owners to see what ICORE is about without buying gear first we will have speed loaders for K and L frames available to use at no charge. The stages will be fun but not overwhelming so if you are in the Phoenix area and have a 6 shooter buried in a drawer somewhere go dust it off, buy or make some ammo, beg or borrow a strong side holster then show up and shoot it! PROD ICORE Beginner Match.pdf

Try immediately driving to the next target without looking for it first. You may need a few practice sessions before it works consistently but you'll probably find that you just didn't know that you are already seeing it. Oh, and shooting S Mtn ICORE this Saturday will also help!

I haven't seen any of these noobs with their 6-shot guns show up here, much less have fun but not return because they weren't competitive for not having moon clips, but I have a plan to actively recruit them to see how many will show up to shoot a match. Steve Horsman has taken over the monthly Phx Rod & Gun Club ICORE match and is looking to build it up so I've talked with him about putting on a special beginners match.We'll have loaner speed loaders so all Joe Average needs to bring is a gun, holster and ammo. This will happen in the fall and for a month or two prior I'll put flyers up in as many local gun shops and ranges as will let me and post on whatever forums I can find. I'll also put together a handout with info on all the Phoenix area USPSA, IDPA and ICORE matches for those that show up to try to encourage them to continue shooting competitively. So we'll see how many of the hordes of 6-shot Revo owners will shoot a match when invited.

I'm also not seeing the problem. To me, it appears that Multiview has agreed to create and send a USPSA newsletter to email addresses supplied by USPSA in return for the rights to sell advertising in the newsletter. Other than selling advertising I don't see much difference between this and the mailing of Front Sight, which is likely done by a mailing house using names & address furnished by USPSA.

I have looked at the results and what others have failed to mention is that of the bottom 10 finishers 7 were shooting Minor. So obviously if you choose to shoot 8 shot Minor you have a 70% chance of finishing in the bottom 10 at any given match. I think my conclusion is only slightly sillier than making any other sweeping declarations based on a single Revolver Nationals held just three months after 8 shot Minor was introduced.

The round count/points were identical to the single stack match. What do you think? 8 shot arrays? I wonder if they even moved the targets. As to the 625 being dead, if it is not viable at an exclusively revolver match, it won't be at matches where revolver equality is not even a thought. Shannon Smith and Matt Griffin are top performers and their results speak for themselves. Revolver now needs two sub classes Why? Seriously, I don't see the need to keep 6 shot viable (and realistically, just the 625) if indeed is isn't. Very few people enjoyed shooting USPSA with a 6 shot revolver but now I'm seeing increased participation in revolver at local matches. For those few who feel that the weird mental math puzzle gymnastics required to shoot a 6 shot revolver in an average match are what defines Revolver Division, all I can say is that your approach wasn't bringing new revo shooters into a dying division but 8 shot minor is.

I use it in my .38 super 627 chambers and it does make it easier to wipe off the crud and I have no trouble with extraction. I'm not sure if the chambers stay cleaner longer (I think they do).

OK, now I see - "many times" at the same make ready.

You should get the question "Are you ready" every time as it is one of the official commands. One of the points in this thread is that a positive response is not required.What command are you getting when you aren't asked "Are you ready"? According to the stage briefing, I had not taken the start position after the make ready. Are you saying I should be asked that with my hand still on my pistol? I was commenting on the the first line. I read it as that you didn't hear it (the standard command) every time and, if it doesn't bug you much it must bug you a little, so I was curious as to what you expected to hear.

You should get the question "Are you ready" every time as it is one of the official commands. One of the points in this thread is that a positive response is not required. What command are you getting when you aren't asked "Are you ready"?

You can shoot 6 or 7 shot minor but not 9 shot. Fresh from my new maroon-ish colored cover Feb 2014 rule book : a maximum of 6 rounds fired before reload if Major PF declared, 8 if minor PF declared. So you don't have to shoot 8 in Minor, just no more than 8. Edited to add: Just to be clear, it is Revolver Division allowing 8 shot minor along with 6 shot Major. Not a separate Minor Division.

If you haven't met Derrick before, be prepared for a somewhat "unique" customer service experience. If you ask him if he can pin your gas block his response will probably be: "Yes" . . . . . . . . . He won't let you do anything stupid but otherwise he isn't big on volunteering his opinion, so be sure to ask if you have any questions.

Another vote for used until you get some miles in and know what you want. I think the closest thing to standard, all around motorcycles these days are the "Adventure" bikes like the Suzuki V-Stroms and Honda NC700X and CB500X.

In my mid pack, casual shooter opinion it definitely favored 8 shot but was still enjoyable with 6 shot. Except for Stage 13 which was strong hand only, seven shots total with no-shoot poppers, I don’t think 6 vs 8 drastically changed the stage strategies but most of the stages were short with low round counts so an additional reload was a big percentage of the stage time. There weren’t many long/difficult shots where major scoring helped but Stage 11 (Schmidt Standards) was one where it made a big difference. With long distances and short par times there were hits scattered all over the targets and that jumped three Major shooters to near the top on that particular stage. The stages were designed by Kyle Schmidt and Sara Dunivin specifically for the Single Stack match so I don’t think it was representative of either a typical match or a revo-specific match. I would like to see Kyle and Sara design a Revolver only match. I don't like to brag, but I do want to mention that shooting 8 shot minor helped me win the coveted "High Senior Who Isn't Vic Pickett" award!

While everyone is entitled to their opinion on whether or not they like 8 shot minor, it wasn't pushed through by a mysterious few over the objections of the shooters. As anecdotal evidence that actual Revo shooters were in favor of it I offer this: at Rio Salado Saturday we had six Revo (5 minor/1 major) out of 80 something total shooters and Sunday we again had 80+ total shooters and eight were Revo (all minor). Only one person shot both days so that is 13 different people shooting Revo over the weekend compared to the three we averaged last year. And if you squint real hard you can say that on Sunday we had close to 10% shooting Revo plus I'm getting a lot of comments from people interested in Revo in general and the 929 in particular.

Seems there's tons of non-revolver shooters that are plenty pissed at the dropping of the classifiers. There's quite the discussion going on in another thread here on Enos. Guys are acting like their favorite pet was just put to sleep. It's not like the remaining classifiers are good enough anymore . More like five or six people making tons of posts. Believe me, there are more than 5 or 6 non revolver shooters who think this is a big deal. Not saying there aren't. I was just pointing out that there are only a half dozen people in the other thread posting over and over. And, rather than rationally addressing the decision to remove the classifiers itself, those few seem to have decided to vilify revolver shooters and start a witch hunt to declare 8 shot minor as inherently evil. Just to be clear, no revolver shooters that I know had any say in the decision to eliminate the classifiers.

Seems there's tons of non-revolver shooters that are plenty pissed at the dropping of the classifiers. There's quite the discussion going on in another thread here on Enos. Guys are acting like their favorite pet was just put to sleep. It's not like the remaining classifiers are good enough anymore . More like five or six people making tons of posts.