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Been shooting lead only (122 gr/147 gr fp), in my G34s and G19 for years. Clean them after every match (2-300 rds), takes 5 min. Barrels show as much a mirror finish as the day I got them. I tried a LWD bbl in the 34 and didn't notice any difference in cleaning or in accuracy so I sold it. Reputable bullet makers are putting out good, hard lead nowadays. I run 4.1 grs of WSF in my 147's and it makes minor easy...4.7 WSF in the 122's and it's fine....Cleaning is quick and easy. I have a hard time worrying about shooting lead in a Glock. From what I've experienced, seen and heard from others, it's not been the problem some try to make it out to be. Shoot it, clean it, enjoy it. WSF is my powder of choice for 9mm. I've read where some use WST but I think that's a little too fast for my 9mm needs. I use that for .38 and .45.

I emailed Midway today re the Vibra-Prime (ok, I'm late to this party...2/29/08)...and this is their response: Dear Sir, Thanks for your email. I'm told that the product sold well initially, but that once the market was saturated with the Vibra Prime sales fell off dramatically. Unless there's overwhelming evidence of an enormous demand for that product it would be very difficult to justify a production run large enough to make the product economically viable. We appreciate your feedback, though, and I've forwarded your comments to Marketing just in case! Please let us know if we can be of further help. Thanks for your business! Sincerely, Brian Customer Service MidwayUSA 1. I don't for a minute believe that the market was saturated w/the VP and sales fell off dramatically. 2. Enormous demand? Don't know what that means...From what I've seen/read it's out there but "enormous"...?...Larry...just what does that mean to you? 3. Production run...economically viable?...WTH?...They destroy the molds? Hey, this is cheap plastic...those molds cost that much? Wow, I'm impressed!.... I get the impression that a lot of us would like to have the Frankford Arsenal VP...I'd like another one...mind is really slowing down!...Hey, if the market is so saturated w/these things how come Dillon is still offering their expensive primer loader for $200+ day in/day out?...Don't get me wrong, I love big Blue but man, VP sure is an alternative ya know?... Besides, Midway owns Frankford Arsenal and if they can't produce it cheaply there's gotta be a problem...Makes me wonder if maybe Dillon just bought the VP out from Midway...ala MicroSoft and it's competition?.... That VP can NOT be all that expensive to make...cost them what....$10 or less to make? They destroyed the molds? Wow, does that make sense?...There's a problem here. They make it sound like it was some kind of one-off or something...Hey, this ain't a tv one-off bike build...it's plastic and an electric motor...!... I have to think, because the VP worked surprisingly well, that L. Potterfield and M. Dillon had a serious conversation that is costing the rest of us access to a good product. Maybe I'm just nuts but Midway seems to make a big deal out of the fact that the product just didn't sell well enough for them to justify its' existence...Hmmm...There's a smell-test issue in here somewhere...Something's wrong when, with all the stuff Midway sells, they can't continue to make something a lot of us liked , that cost them very little to make, is no longer available?...I'm a cynic I guess...Guess I'll have to put up the big bucks for a Dillon primer loader that sometimes works fine...

Sounds like you're nitpicking about equipment when you should be more concerned about how to use it. I like the Fobus double/paddle mag holders...cheap...easy to position where I want them. I cut them down about an inch w/my dremel tool and now just grab a mag instead of the plastic pouch. Pick something and get used to it...single...double...whatever...then forget about em and just shoot. Spending money on equipment that could be spent on reloading is a waste of resources. You've got enough anxiety to overcome when the buzzer goes off. Don't let the small stuff become big stuff...Two doubles is fine...A barney mag and the first fully loaded mag come outta my back pocket. That's 51 rounds and in Production it's usually enough.

Moon clips for .45's are cheap...about $1 ea. Get a bunch and have all the loads ya need for a match in your bag when ya get to a match. You can "de-moon" with your golf club tool when ya get home...

Got an old Midway 1292 tumbler out in the garage (NEVER in the house...lots of lead dust in that thing fm my bullets)...Had it about 15 yrs and it's going strong...What I'd really like to know though is where SPOOK got a brand spankin' new FA Vibra-Prime?...I'd like to find another one but they've been gone for quite awhile. Musta been a private deal...I keep waiting for some enterprising co. to offer one...unless Dillon bought them up fm Midway...

Don't know anyone in/out of uniform that carries a Glock 19 and isn't happy with it. A fine, reliable choice. Ammo aplenty available.

Once you find out how out of line their prices are and you stop dealing with them it makes you glad you reload. Then you find out how much lead has gone up in the past year...how much primers have gone up and how hard some are to find...how much bullets of all kinds are going up. Kind of makes you start limiting how and when you shoot. But word of mouth on an arrogant gun shop does make a difference.

I refuse to use UPS ever again. Tried to ship a HG back to the manu., like I've done before. Uppity attitudes at UPS said...no, we don't do that anymore...and we won't do it if we can help it...Had to talk to the State rep fm UPS to get an answer...He did not agree w/the new policy but couldn't help...Course it woulda helped if we were actually advised of a policy change...Nevertheless, UPS is now DOWN... Fed-Ex shipped it w/a smile. But this costs about $35-40 each time. Not many alternatives out there for us. USPS has never been a problem for regular packages, nor has getting stuff from UPS.

Seems to be a lot of that going around...Years of abuse, aging, arthritis, now inactivity? From what I've been told there is no one cause. I recently experienced some sacroiliac discomfort. Woke up one day and there it was...That was Oct. '07. My Osteopath manipulated the joint a coupe times and it started to settle down. Not the end of the problem though...seems I also lost some muscle function in the quad and my knee would collapse...Not good. Xrays/MRI/EMG (3 hrs...5 drs!) Seems I have a herniated disc at L3/4...My Ortho-surgeon hesitates to cut me. Good for him. EMG Dr. told me those nerves coming off the lumbar region may regenerate...takes awhile though...So I started stretching/exercising everyday, working the core muscles (like I did 25 yrs ago when I herniated a disc [L5] the first time), and, lo and behold, the SOG seems to be coming around. Crunches, floor-stretches, reverse sit-ups...pushing a little more each day. Lots of stiffness of course. But in all that time I've no pain to speak of in the leg...(sacroiliac was a different story). Regained about a third so far but I think I'm not gonna be where I was until summer comes and goes (along w/IPSC season)...This takes awhile. But I'm feeling much better and my attitude is pretty accepting of the fact that I ain't a kid no more... Going to meet w/my doctors next week and advise of progress...thankfully neither of them were in a hurry. They be smart. To this day, and after going thru this more than once, I'm fully convinced that one cannot sit on one's butt on the couch for very long w/o paying a price. Muscles contract, weight-gain is hard to overcome...When you've been active all your life and suddenly stop things happen you are not ready for...No meds at all except for a couple tylenol the first week waiting for the sacroiliac to settle down...Don't know about anyone else but I've gotta stay active...stretching daily and working the core have to be good things...Don't get old. Don't stop moving.Be well. (BTW, I had a copy of the book put out by the Texas Back Institue...most excellent. Was a great help the first time I did this. Loaned it to a "friend" about two years ago, guess he's still using it... I'm going to have to get another copy).

I was taught to ride the safety w/the strong hand thumb...weak hand thumb along the frame (FRAME...do not touch the slide...you won't like how your gun acts weird when ya catch yourself doing that). Heel of the weak hand fits flat onto the side of the grip...you're forming a vice here between your hands...Placement of the trigger finger on the trigger has been talked about forever. If you shoot revolvers and switch to autos you might reach that finger in too far...If you're a bullseye shooter you'll always use the pad of the finger on the trigger. With long fingers you'll have to find a happy medium...the one that lets you pull the trigger straight to the rear. I think a revo grip and an auto grip are two distinct and different grips...

Polish the rebound slide with Flitz (or similiar polish), and don't forget to also polish the side of the frame that rebound moves on...You want both of those surfaces to be as smooth as possible...makes a difference in smooth trigger pull.

Finally a good use for that 2-iron I could never hit anyway!... Loading moon clips...now that's another story.

Talk to any good revolver shooter you know at a match...He can show what chamfering the cylinder means...makes for much easier reloading and is pretty much a must-have on a competition gun...Doesn't take long to do. All you're doing is opening up the top of the holes in the cylinder to allow loaded ammo to slip in FASTER. Faster is good.

+1 on the LFCD. Still worth a case gage for match ammo but has made getting lazy w/practice ammo easier and with fewer problems.

+1 Allgoodhits. You put some of what I was trying to get at in much more coherent language. I had to stop somewhere and I was getting tired of typing...If I start up again it'll just end up being an esoteric rant on the DA pull...I'll leave that to guys who write books for a living. To attempt more would require beer and a group of like-minded shooters...Basically for IPSC revolver I guess you need a good trigger, perfectly functioning gun (S/W's lend themselves to good trigger work, shim as necessary), and learning how to use the sights while maintaining good DA fundementals. Learn how to reload quickly (moon-clips are the only way to go, even w/a 686...ala Miculek). Practice, practice, practice. Reload.

Lots of theories on DA revo trigger pulls. When I first started shooting PPC I was taught to push/pull the grip...push w/the strong hand and pull w/the weak hand...Weak hand solidifies the gun, strong hand runs the trigger...But you can over-do this to the pont of getting the shakes...back off a bit. Find the right placement for your trigger finger, I like the first joint. This lets me "stage" off the trigger guard (when things are going well...this takes a long time to develop feel..more quirk than anything...lends to timimg). But you need a small grip on the gun and long fingers. To each his own.A lot of people don't like to "stage" a DA revo...I do in PPC (in spite of what I'm occasionally told by really good shooters I respect...who then go out and "stage" their own trigger pulls!), and then lie to my face that they don't do that!...We got em on film...For "action" or IPSC shooting the best way would probably be a nice, controlled straight pull from start to finish...No time to "stage" anyting...but you must avoid slapping. You need consistentcy here..that'll jerk ya all over the place and you won't know why...What counts w/a DA is that you DO NOT KNOW when it's going to go off. It's just happens...Your thinking must be linear...straight back...mentally you have to separate your trigger finger from your hand, i.e. it's a separate entity that has a function unrelated to either hand...This is a mental approach that comes w/the first $10,000 worth of guns and practice...Hard to get overnight...Ah hell...this is just the beginning of good DA shooting...Stance/breathing/visual acuity...the list grows. But it's a start...and after 20+ years I'm still learning...Front sight is everything...nothing else exists...the mechanics of what your doing don't even exist while you're doing it...got that?...Wish I could remember all this...Couple more important things: revo? Get a good/smooth trigger job...I think you mentioned a 686? That can be turned into a reliable yet buttery trigger...but not out of the factory. It's worth the cost... (Can't stress how important this is...it can turn a 15lb gritty, stacking factory trigger into the smoothest 8-9 lb piece of butter you've ever had...leads to much easier consistent pulls). Have the gun milled by a machinist to take moon clips, find sights you like and go for it...Final words: Dry fire...dry fire...dry fire...dry fire...won't hurt that DA at all...Put a dime on top of the barrel, just behind the front sight and dry fire...When you can drop the hammer w/o dropping the dime...everytime...then your pull will have smoothed out...After awhile you'll never think of cocking the hammer for anything...It's a DA...shoot it that way...Then find the best revolver shooter you know and bug him until he walks you through some of his secrets or training methods...he'll probably be happy to do so. I know some shooters here that are "A" class IPSC and can make autos look slow...But they are well-versed in the fundamentals of proper DA shooting...Gotta get me a 625 and set it up for IPSC again...Feel like I'm missing something...Good luck...and ignore guys who've never shot a good DA gun...Might wanna look up ICORE too...

Around here we switch over to PPC for a Fall and Winter league (IPSC gear showing up more and more). Going to be 0 deg tomorrow night so shooting outdoors is a few months off. And trigger time is trigger time...Also have pin league and Bullseye. Not exactly IPSC/IDPA but all shooting is good and learning other disciplines won't hurt a thing...After many years of doing this a few things seem to be important: We make sure the overhead (shielded, aimed at an angle) spotlights are aligned on the center of each target. That helps greatly w/sight picture. FO's are a bitch indoors. Dots are good. W/good light on the target black rear/black front is good. Dim or no light directly over your position is better than a bright light directly over you (that blurs my sights...we "blacken" our revo sights w/carbide...they demand attention! ). Good ventilation is essential if only to move your guns' smoke downrange quickly. If you find yourself prone in what seems to be a breeze (on a nice piece of carpet, of course)...well, that's a good thing...system is working correctly (if not the EPA will show up sooner or later...ventilation systems are such a huge expense your club must get it right the first time). Flourescent lighting admitedly sucks but a 75 ft range needs quite a bit of light of some kind...Light directly on the target allowed most of us (the aging group), to actually see our front sights again...Good time of year to slow down a bit and work on serious sight alignment/breathing/stance/grip issues...Not the best of conditions...just the best available during the winter months in the upper mid-west...

Having a few extra recoil springs around to play with won't cost much. Clip one and try it to see how it reacts to your personal load and PF. If you like what you see and feel you're done. Finding the right load/bullet for the PF you want to shoot and having the Glock run reliably for match work with that combo is paramount. I think we sometimes (well, ...me), forget that they were originally designed for military/police use. We've hot-rodded them to be what we want. But that's how we learn...that's what makes it personal and therefore fun...For me stock recoil in my 34 does everything I want it to do.

Hmmm. Were it me the choice would be an easy one. Never heard of anyplace where I could get a NIB Glock 34 for a mere $107...

My loads for 9mm minor seem quite a bit different than what I'm reading here...I'm using 3.9-4.0 gr of WSF under a 147 gr FPBB lead bullet..(I get em locally)...hardest lead I've ever seen too (cannot scratch em). 1.120 OAL, wsp...Recoil is moderate, smoke is minimal, accuracy is ok if I do my part...Stock bbl in my G34 and never a sign of leading after normal cleaning, no build up to worry about...Function is flawless in my 34 and my CZ 75...PF is 128-131 I think. Pressure signs low to moderate, nothing abnormal. I like Win. powders. I use WST for .38 in PPC and for .45 for limited. Always worked well and keeps my powder needs and load data as simple as I can get it. I don't see any reason to change yet. But there are lots of good minor combos available, as shown in this thread. Once you find what you like then that's what you push...If it goes bang everytime and you are happy, that's what it's all about.

I see them on Open guns here, but not yet on a Limited gun...But, if it's legal, why not? When you're in a hurry they are right there for ya. Most use them to avoid the scope (C-mores mostly)...usually mounted on the side away fm your belt. i.e. no pinch. Don't know about table-pick up help but they do seem to make loading and show-clear quick and easy.

Got my CZ 75B fm Matt in Sept. Set up pretty much the way he sets up his own guns...It has everything I thought I wanted and is awesome...set up correctly from the get go. I did not want to piece-meal it so I had him do it right the first time. I was in touch w/Matt often and he helped me w/every question along the way. He was quick w/suggestions and understanding when I didn't want certain things. She's been perfect right out of the box. A real pro for the CZ, much like, I'm sure Angus is, to deal with. I'd recommend Matt just from my personal experience but I don't think you could find two better guys to put a CZ together. Bad thing is I doubt I'll be able to shoot it this summer and don't know what I'm going to do with it yet...

Been shooting 147 FPBB very hard lead for years in my 34. Barrel looks like new when cleaned...Never really understood the fear of stock barrels and lead but...I guess it depends on the lead....Gonna try a LW just to see if there's an actual difference. Don't mean to veer off-thread but stock Glock barrels have proven to be adequate, to say the least.

I use a white hand-towel on top of the bench...helps me actually see WTH I'm supposed to be doing...Along with a magnetic parts dish nearby to hold small parts so they stay where I put em...Oh...and a large magnet designed especially for crawling around on the floor while cursing myself out...Needless to say, I work on stuff when no one esle is around. So far I've been prety lucky...

I don't recall ever not being able to find the stock mag release when hustling through a COF at a match...There's a reason Production has some limits on equipment and this one is easy. Carry is one thing and competition is another...