Enter DNF for New CF Shooters at Low Ready?

[RickT]

Clubs do generally allow first time shooters to use low ready if they either don't have a holster or aren't quite up to speed on holster use.  How do clubs handle scoring if they report the scores up to SCSA?  The match I run using scaled-down stages is Level "0", but we use Practiscore and I'm inclined to create a CFLR division just to have a way of processing the shooter's results.  This works for our situation, but how do regular clubs handle this?

[Pasley]

Put a “novice” division in practiscore. 

[KelsonAK]

5.2.4 A competitor not in the proper start position at the start signal will
incur penalties. This includes competitors shooting the improper number
of strings from the shooting boxes on Showdown. Competitors are
required to shoot three strings from one box and two strings from the
other shot in any combination. Failure to move between boxes after
three strings have been shot from one shooting box shall incur 1
procedural penalty, per string, for each string shot in the wrong box. It is
acceptable to shoot in the 2-2-1 shooting order if the competitor so
chooses; however, 3/2 or 2/3 are acceptable sequences as well. See
Section 7 for penalty information.

 

7.4 Procedural Errors: A competitor whose actions are in violation of
specified stage procedures is considered to have committed a procedural
error. Procedural errors will result in a 3 second penalty for each
occurrence.

 

 

[ZackJones]

Use proper division but exclude USPSA Number even if they are a member. PractiScore shouldn’t let you create the upload file with an invalid division. By omitting USPSA Number the results won’t be used for classification.

[Pasley]

That seems like a poor solution. If SCSA can support unofficial stages why not unofficial divisions?

[stango424]

On 1/17/2018 at 7:03 PM, Pasley said:

That seems like a poor solution. If SCSA can support unofficial stages why not unofficial divisions?

So you are saying just make 1 novice division to cover ss, open, limited, rimfire,etc...? Or a separate novice division for each? I dont see how just omitting the uspsa number isn't the best and most efficient solution. They still get to see results on practiscore so what's the big deal really.  Only the official stages even really matter for classification status so unofficial stages aren't really relevant. There's a good chance I just don't know anything though so take it for what it's worth. 

[Pasley]

One novice division for anybody that wants to shoot a centerfire pistol from low ready.  At the monthly match I shoot there are usually 2-5 people shooting it every month.  In comparison there are probably 2-5 revolver entries per year.

 

It seems wrong to misrepresent people's scores in publicly published results whether they are used for classification or not.

[ZackJones]

On 1/20/2018 at 5:19 PM, Pasley said:

It seems wrong to misrepresent people's scores in publicly published results whether they are used for classification or not.

 

But it's okay to start competitors in the wrong starting position? I didn't know rule 5.2.2 was optional. It's not marked as such in any version of the rules I've seen. 

If you're going to run competitors from the wrong start position then either (1) do not record times or (2) delete them from the match prior to posting. That way there will be no misrepresentation in the results due to the club not running the match in accordance with the rules.

 

 

[Pasley]

SCSA MISSION STATEMENT

 – Our mission is to promote safe, fair and fun participation in Steel Shooting competition, for members of all ages and skill levels, through effective leadership, education, communication and administration.

 

 

We have 8 different divisions for centerfire pistols which is about six too many.  Why not have a separate division for people that want to shoot a centerfire pistol but don't feel comfortable drawing from a holster?

 

It seems like a better solution than just omitting their USPSA number like you suggest.

 

I sure wish Glen hadn't affiliated.  I think I'm getting real close to being done with steel challenge.

[Thomas H]

On 1/22/2018 at 7:00 AM, ZackJones said:

 

But it's okay to start competitors in the wrong starting position? I didn't know rule 5.2.2 was optional. It's not marked as such in any version of the rules I've seen. 

If you're going to run competitors from the wrong start position then either (1) do not record times or (2) delete them from the match prior to posting. That way there will be no misrepresentation in the results due to the club not running the match in accordance with the rules.

 

 

 

This.

 

On 1/22/2018 at 10:55 AM, Pasley said:

SCSA MISSION STATEMENT

 – Our mission is to promote safe, fair and fun participation in Steel Shooting competition, for members of all ages and skill levels, through effective leadership, education, communication and administration.

 

 

We have 8 different divisions for centerfire pistols which is about six too many.  Why not have a separate division for people that want to shoot a centerfire pistol but don't feel comfortable drawing from a holster?

 

It seems like a better solution than just omitting their USPSA number like you suggest.

 

I sure wish Glen hadn't affiliated.  I think I'm getting real close to being done with steel challenge.

 

It is certainly true that if you don't like the rules and want to run it differently, you should play a different game.

 

That being said---if they aren't comfortable with draws, why isn't someone lending them a .22 to run from low ready?  People have that happening all the time at our local club, while they work on (outside of the match) getting comfortable with drawing from a holster so that they can later shift to a centerfire division.

 

It isn't hard, after all.  More importantly, the match itself is simple:  Centerfire pistols draw from a holster.  Rimfire pistols don't.  Don't want to draw?  Shoot one of the other two divisions that have a handgun that you don't have to draw.  Don't have a .22?  Borrow one, because probably 90% of the poeple around you have one, and shooters will let you borrow it.

 

Don't add non-match results to an official match.

[zzt]

A bunch of experienced shooters came out to one of the SC matches.  One did not bring a holster, because he intended to just watch.  It was their first time for SC and they just wanted to see if they liked it.  The MD let the holsterless guy shoot from low ready anyway.  They all loved it and returned for the next match.  The guy without a holster ordered on the next day.  Now we have five new diehard SC fans.

 

I run the steel matches (not sanctioned) at my home club.  In order to keep it fair the rules are:  3' sq shooting box.  Gun holstered, or placed in ready condition on a barrel in front of the box.  Start position is toes on Xs on the back of the box, hands in surrender position.  At the beep you step forward, and either retrieve your gun and engage, or draw and engage.  I've timed it both ways with a bunch of shooters and the first shot time is essentially the same.  Obviously this won't do for SC, but it works for outlaw matches.  It started out just being a couple of SC shooters wanting to stay in practice.  Now more than half use a holster.

[rowdyb]

I think omitting their scores from the upload is an elegant solution. The non holster shooter at this local get's to shoot and be encouraged to buy a holster and practice. Their scores don't show up, no activity fee is collected and no special file or practiscore meddling is required.

 

I don't get the push back from the OP, especially basing it on a "but what about the new people?" plea.

[Pasley]

33 minutes ago, rowdyb said:

I think omitting their scores from the upload is an elegant solution.

 

I think that would be a perfect solution if their scores were in a separate division in practiscore and were then deleted from the upload to SCSA.  I have not asked directly but I assume that the people who regularly shoot the "novice" division where I shoot want to know their scores without having to write it down themselves after every run.

[rowdyb]

Show them the pad at the end of the match. If you want the more in depth stuff having your score online offers, then shoot in a division that's legal and supported by the sport and the software.

 

Orrrrr, just throw them in rimfire pistol irons, and then they'll be on there and compare and do whatever they want. it's the division that most closely matches what they're doing. ie starting from low ready, albeit with a center fire gun. Chances are they'll be slower than most people in that division anyways. And leave their uspsa/sc member number blank of course. There are work arounds that don't force you to go full outlaw. (not that i'd do this, but i do see it as a sort of "loophole")

 

Full disclosure: i shot at a club that was using the SC logo and calling their match SC. but they had their own made up divisions and never uploaded scores. after going to the club's BOD and explaining why i felt this needed to change, they did. with the usual grumbling and questions. but they did it. it is now a fully legal, affiliated club doing things the right way and i now realy enjoy steel challenge. they didn't lose any shooters over it. the cost of the match didn't go up. new shooters still arrive and shoot. i think doing things the "right way" in the long run yields more positive returns than short term accommodation.

Edited January 25, 2018 by rowdyb

[photoracer]

On ‎1‎/‎17‎/‎2018 at 9:03 PM, Pasley said:

That seems like a poor solution. If SCSA can support unofficial stages why not unofficial divisions?

Unofficial stages don't count for classification purposes, only match scores.