How are revolver HHF figured for USPSA

[Makicjf]

Howdy,

               I thought that revolver HHF was established as 90% of Production; but I think that has changed.  Often times, revolver HHF is actually higher if the score is plugged into other Divisions ( a at least via the calculator page).   HAs there been a change and Revolver HHF is now based on actual revolver shooters? I think that would be awesome, and give me a better idea of my actual skill level compared apples to apples; or was my initial understanding incorrect?

Jason

[Alaskan454]

It's my understanding that they were initially based upon an average for some of the best recorded scores and are updated if the HHF is being met more regularly than expected.  I know of at least two HHFs that have changed a lot since the 8 shooters were allowed, both of which used to require a standing reload.  This is all based upon chatter I've heard from those with more experience in USPSA so it may be incorrect.  If someone has the "right" answer I'd really like to know!

[pete627]

Go here and bring up any classifier you want ... It will show the HF class boundaries for all divisions on the same page (don't look like 90% to me).

https://azshooters.org/

[MWP]

At one point I think they used percentages of other divisions, but eventually they got enough data to adjust. 

 

Now they should be using actual hit factors from shooters. 

 

But keep in mind most classifier hit factors are set with a zero or hero pace for any division, and a top GM match pace is closer to 85% of that number. 

[Makicjf]

Doing some comparing makes me think you are correct. I would believe the HHF are revolver shooters...which is great.  

What's not great is my natural pace where I generally don't have the wheels fall off is about 77%.  ?.  Getting faster than that and keeping good hits is proving a bit... frustrating.  I need a mentor..but I'm the only revo guy I know.

Thanks!

[jcc7x7]

2 hours ago, Makicjf said:

Doing some comparing makes me think you are correct. I would believe the HHF are revolver shooters...which is great.  

What's not great is my natural pace where I generally don't have the wheels fall off is about 77%.  ?.  Getting faster than that and keeping good hits is proving a bit... frustrating.  I need a mentor..but I'm the only revo guy I know.

Thanks!

Push the so called envelope!

Back in the day we all were the only guys we knew! No internet etc

Try stuff,

Then make yourself go as fast as you can and let your eyes learn to see fast.

You can't shoot what you can't see but you'll never see fast at your 9or mine) current speed , gotta speed up in practice to let your eyes know what they are looking for.

Work on your grip and keep working on it so you can rip the trigger without disturbing the sights.

It's will all come.

Good fortune with the quest

[MWP]

Unfortunately, a lot of revo classifier high hit factors are still set too low. There are plenty of classifiers that are easily 100% by GMs, time after time. And those same ones are sometimes thrown out by lower guys, say a b class shooter, who shoots 100 on it. 

 

With as small as a group as we have, it's really tough to get good numbers for classifiers. 

[Alaskan454]

2 hours ago, MWP said:

Unfortunately, a lot of revo classifier high hit factors are still set too low. There are plenty of classifiers that are easily 100% by GMs, time after time. And those same ones are sometimes thrown out by lower guys, say a b class shooter, who shoots 100 on it. 

 

With as small as a group as we have, it's really tough to get good numbers for classifiers. 

In an ideal world each classifier would start life as a major match stage, then the highest stage score simply becomes the initial HHF.  I think ICORE did this recently when they added new ones at the IRC.  Although, as MWP mentioned I've seen far too many people go the zero or hero route on classifiers.  I think I saw one guy who shot a special classifier match and got a single 100% followed by a zero on every other stage.  No matter what you do I think some people will try to artificially inflate their classification and others will always sandbag to stay in their current class.  

 

In my limited experience the best ones for a true percentage are the older 6 shot neutral stages like El Prez.  I shot an 85.97% on El Prez and the next month earned an 81.078% at Revolver Nationals.  Pretty close all things considered.  On the other hand I also scored 105.25% of the HHF on 13-08 around the same time during a match.  It was a great run but obviously shouldn't have been over the 100% mark.

Edited August 8, 2017 by Alaskan454

[Alaskan454]

Randomly saw this a while back and it relates to the discussion: 

 

"The high hit factors for USPSA classifier courses of fire have been updated from time to time over the years. In reviewing the current data, it is apparent that all of the classifiers need to be reviewed, and in some cases adjusted. Some of these will go up in difficulty, while others will go down in difficulty. Each
division will be reviewed for each classifier. The new high hit factors will be the best 10 records on file for each classifier in each division, throwing out only statistical anomalies. When the update process is complete, USPSA will release high hit factors to the membership via the USPSA webpage, along with an
announcement to the membership."

 

Source:

 

[MWP]

8 hours ago, Alaskan454 said:

In an ideal world each classifier would start life as a major match stage, then the highest stage score simply becomes the initial HHF.  I think ICORE did this recently when they added new ones at the IRC.  Although, as MWP mentioned I've seen far too many people go the zero or hero route on classifiers.  I think I saw one guy who shot a special classifier match and got a single 100% followed by a zero on every other stage.  No matter what you do I think some people will try to artificially inflate their classification and others will always sandbag to stay in their current class.  

 

In my limited experience the best ones for a true percentage are the older 6 shot neutral stages like El Prez.  I shot an 85.97% on El Prez and the next month earned an 81.078% at Revolver Nationals.  Pretty close all things considered.  On the other hand I also scored 105.25% of the HHF on 13-08 around the same time during a match.  It was a great run but obviously shouldn't have been over the 100% mark.

That's how a lot start now, at majors. Problem is, no one at a major goes all out, and they shoot it at match pace, roughly 85%, and hit factors get set too low. 

 

If the fastest GMs went out and went zero or hero on new classifers, just to set the numbers, we would have significantly less GMs, and the percentages would be more realistic. 

 

IPSC doesn't have a classifier system like ours, it's only based on major match finish, and it can go backwards as well. 

 

Revo isnt the only division like this, there are 7 others with the same situation.

[Alaskan454]

7 hours ago, MWP said:

That's how a lot start now, at majors. Problem is, no one at a major goes all out, and they shoot it at match pace, roughly 85%, and hit factors get set too low. 

 

If the fastest GMs went out and went zero or hero on new classifers, just to set the numbers, we would have significantly less GMs, and the percentages would be more realistic. 

 

IPSC doesn't have a classifier system like ours, it's only based on major match finish, and it can go backwards as well. 

 

Revo isnt the only division like this, there are 7 others with the same situation.

That's good to know, I tend to learn a lot from you. 

[jcc7x7]

Shot roscoe Rattle (13-04 ) this past week end at 81+ %

Todays update just made A class 75.5 %

USPSA still have not counted the 100% Classifiers, thought that might happen once I made A class.

HHF I believe is starting to catch up now based on actual scores.

[Makicjf]

Thanks for all the insight.  The AZshooters link is really useful.  I just realized that at the match I shot Major and Minor The minor % for Down the Middle was 90.09%, but it has not been registered with USPSA.  One of two things happened, it was not reported because I shot 2 guns in the same division, or it was a clerical oversight when the scores where sent.   My high percentage average is 78-79% so the score would be within 15%.  I'll find out tonight at the evening match.  If it an oversight, I'm sure it can be rectified.  If the score is nixed due to the fact I shot 2 guns: so be it.  That 90% would be nice to have, though.

I'm glad the scores reflect actual revolver shooters in actual conditions.  That makes them a real benchmark of skill level.

Thank Ya'al

jason

[Makicjf]

Shot a match last night and did some comparison  between the AZ shooters classifier list

https://azshooters.org/classifier?classifier=08-03&hitfactor=7.4667

This has me at 93.3% on 08-3

The USPSA classifier Calculator Page has it at 77%.

When they get posted I'll know what USPSA says!

It will be nice to see which one is the most current so I can accurately track my progress( or lack    )

Jason

[pete627]

1 hour ago, Makicjf said:

Shot a match last night and did some comparison  between the AZ shooters classifier list

https://azshooters.org/classifier?classifier=08-03&hitfactor=7.4667

This has me at 93.3% on 08-3

The USPSA classifier Calculator Page has it at 77%.

When they get posted I'll know what USPSA says!

It will be nice to see which one is the most current so I can accurately track my progress( or lack    )

Jason

 

I have been using the AZShooters site for some time and it has always been dead on ... down to the last decimal point. 

Check out the percentages it has for any classifiers you have already shot ... including the one you are waiting to post ...

Do this by putting in your USPSA number in the "USPSA Shooter Stats" box at the top right side of the page (put an "A" in front of your number ... )

https://azshooters.org/

Edited August 10, 2017 by pete627
add link

[MWP]

Looking back at the historical HHF of 08-03 is a bit strange, but I believe the current number is 9.3417, ish. 

[Makicjf]

Pete627,

           I did as you suggested and plugged in the numbers from the USPSA sight into the AZshooters and they were nearly exact.  That is going to be a great tool!

I appreciate all the help!

Jason

[Alaskan454]

08-03 is one of the classifiers that AZS has an incorrect HHF for, I think a few too many people got 100s on it when they had the HHF set at 8.   I noticed a similar trend with 13-02, the HHF changed quite a bit recently but AZS has not updated it.  It's nice that they post the classifier percentage right next to your score on the USPSA website now, you don't have to wait until the classification updates are processed.

[Makicjf]

That makes sense.  I missed an 8 hf ,exactly 3.75 seconds, 30 points by a 1/4 of inch ( threw a C)... 13-02 was 90+ percent on AZ, but only 77% or so on the USPSA page.  I managed to find the anomalies ... Man, I was pretty excited, but I'll keep grinding

Jason

Edited August 10, 2017 by Makicjf

[matteekay]

For what it's worth, I had an NROI class over the weekend and the instructor said that classifier adjustments are scheduled for "soon". 

[yigal]

is it's legal for production?

[Toolguy]

Sooo... that's what those guys were talking about when they said 8 shooter.  Now all I have to do is find one and get a holster!