Cheap ffp mil/mil scopes are on the way...

[SinisterRob]

Saw this in the new monthly midway flyer.

BSA Tactical Mil-Mil Rifle Scope 30mm Tube 4-14x 44mm Side Focus 1/10 Mil Adjustments First Focal MRAD Reticle Matte

$299.99 Save $100.00

Sale expires 12/31/2010

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=456482

"long range target shooting or for use on a 22 trainer"

So is this the ticket?

[warpspeed]

I'd say on a 22LR it may be OK. It has 26.5 mils of vertical adjustment. I'd still probably use a 20 MOA base but that should be good.

[mscott]

I've never handled that scope, but can't see giving $300 for anything made by BSA. Bushnell has a fixed 10x that's mil/mil for @ $200.

[Graham Smith]

BSA scopes are not particularly good glass and the price is not that compelling. If you want to look for a budget scope, have a read over at SniperCentral. There are a lot of really experienced people over there, and while they all oooh and aaah over the $2000 scopes, they are remarkably down to earth in recommending budget scopes as well.

Two you will see frequently mentioned are Wotac and Falcon Menace who both have a 4-14x for under $400. Also, Bushnell has been getting very good reviews. My new .308 bolt rifle is coming with a Bushnell 6500 Tactical 2.5-16x42mm which compares favorably to scopes at twice the price.

Edited December 3, 2010 by Graham Smith

[Wap wap]

ffp scopes require additional care in setting the front reticle forward. the scope must be assembled in controlled envoirment or the dust on the lense and such will be magnified as much as the reticle, which of course depends on the erector ratio. something like a 6x in an ior would really be noticable. Even if this were done correctly the accuracy in the turrets would be questionable, especially in a 22 lr trainer as the drop is so drastic. Also you will need about 40 moa to get to 300 yds with subsonic, which means a 20 moa rail or something similar with most scopes. When using the 22lr, it is useful to compare the time of flight of the 22 with the time of flight of the big bore you are using in arriving a "real world" training tool, which is abouut 10 mil for a 308 to 1k and about the same for a subsonic to 300 yds.. Also the use of high mag variables will "distort" the perspective of the image if you are trying for simulations similar to a 1000 yd shot. Swfa 6x is a betters choice within a reasonable price range. AO, even though they work best at the closer ranges used in long range, are not really necessary if your are shooting practical targets such as tennis balls or clay targets, however in 100yd group shooting they are a must. Personally I use an ior 4x with a 308 bullet drop elevation turret, or holdover with the 15 mil reticle. It retains the perspective of the shot while allowing enough working room in the holdoffs, and holdovers.

[BayouSlide]

BSA scopes are not particularly good glass and the price is not that compelling. If you want to look for a budget scope, have a read over at SniperCentral. There are a lot of really experienced people over there, and while they all oooh and aaah over the $2000 scopes, they are remarkably down to earth in recommending budget scopes as well.

Two you will see frequently mentioned are Wotac and Falcon Menace who both have a 4-14x for under $400. Also, Bushnell has been getting very good reviews. My new .308 bolt rifle is coming with a Bushnell 6500 Tactical 2.5-16x42mm which compares favorably to scopes at twice the price.

+1 on budget scopes that give you a lot for a limited budget. I have a Falcon Menace 5-25x50 ML16 FFP mil/mil arriving today, on sale for $435 shipped from R.W. Snyder. It's replacing a Millet TRS-1 currently on my Remington 700...I'm hoping the Falcon is as much of an overachiever for the price as the Millet was. No way I can justify a $2K scope in my shooting budget, which is always stretched pretty thin.

Curtis

[SinisterRob]

I've never handled that scope, but can't see giving $300 for anything made by BSA. Bushnell has a fixed 10x that's mil/mil for @ $200.

I have seen that $200 Bushnell in action and I was impressed, but I would like a little more magnification. And also the option of less magnification.

Well now I am glad I asked about the Midway BSA scope as I thought that might be the only option less expensive then the Vortex ffp. I will definatly read up on the Falcon Menace and WORTAC scopes.

My application is for a 308 Winchester SX-AR that I want to shoot out to 850 yards. The specific match has a set of targets out at 1335 yards but that is only a small portion of the match. Currently the rest of the targets are from 300 to 850 yards.

Thanks for the suggestions,

Rob

[twodownzero]

The bushnell FFP mil/mil scope is nearly $1000.

I'd say this is a great budget option for the money.

[Wap wap]

Its better getting a higher quality sfp with good turrets than getting ffp in the bargin basement.Unless your ranging with the reticle at lower mags, which looses accuracy, it doesn't offer much advantage over sfp. Ffp allows hold off for movers easier than sfp. You can pick up a used ior 6x18 for about the same price as the bushnell, and the mp8 reticle is heads away better than the a mil dot reticle, or a used 3.5x15 NF that is better than either. If your dialing in drops on a sfp, especially NF poi doesn't change with change in power. This is usually the case with most high quality sfp scopes.

[Hamma Slamma]

I have one of these I think. It's BSA but may not be the same advertised. <ine is 6x24. It's good to get started, to be honest would be better on a 223 than my 308. Anything past 200 yards starts to get real fuzzy, past 300 the target gets pretty fuzzy, fuzzy enough I wouldn't trust what I am looking at if I didn't already know (bench rest shooting). FWIW I paid less than $300.

[427Cobra]

I won't buy anymore low dollar scopes, my 308 has a 5.5-22x50 NSX on it, I thought to myself 1450 bucks is all I can spend on a scope, then I built a 260rem and topped it off with a Premier Reticle 5.5-25x56 MIL/MIL scope, Nightforce makes great scopes, but my Premier is better in every way. So I would rather have a 3k scope on a 100 dollar waepon than a 100 dollar scope on a 3k weapon, spend money on glass, your eyes will love you and your targets will hate you.

[bpipe95]

Best Stay Away

[jaredr]

Best Stay Away

outstanding

I've got a lot of experience making bad decisions and opting for cheap glass as a stopgap. accordingly, now have a large collection of useless crap that's not worth the aggravation to return (broken, canted reticles from simmons) or to try and get any use out of them (weak red dots that can't hold zero from tasco). My $.02 on this is spending $300 on anything from BSA just makes the scope you'll eventually but to replace it $300 more expensive.

[Graham Smith]

There are a couple lower cost scopes that still provide reasonably good optics (like the Wotac and Falcon) but the supplies are always limited and can be hard to find. For the most part, if you want a variable power scope that goes over 10x, you are going to be in the 800+ range.

[sleepercaprice1]

Best Stay Away

I remember years ago when BSA was a popular motorcycle in the US, we used to say it stood for "Bitch Stalled Again".

I wish I still had a couple of the ones I sold back then.

[turnandshoot4]

I have been very impressed by the vortex line of scopes. The glass is amazing, mechanics are robust, prices are spot on, and the warranty is great. I think they might be the best deal in scopes right now.

That being said I'd never buy a BSA I planned on using for any kind of real shooting. Plinking in the back yard maybe.

[MustangGreg66]

The BSA scope is now on sale at MidwayUSA, $250. With all those features it's definitly tempting. The only thing keeping me away, besides a basic need for a scope in that category, is the weight, 25 1/8 OZ as measured on a scale of a member on another forum.

[jaredr]

sorry to break out the haterade, but I think the only thing a $250 BSA scope will do is add $250 to the cost of whatever you buy to replace it when you ultimately get tired of it's shortcomings.

If you're only going to use it at 12:00 noon on bright sunny days, on a 100 yard range where you've already adjusted elevation and windage (permanently) so you don't need to be concerned with the scope returning to zero after adjustment, and you've got it mounted on a .22 rimfire so it won't fall apart under recoil, then maybe it's a good buy.

For anything else, I'd look at alternatives from bushnell or weaver and bite the bullet (no pun intended) for a pricier but higher-quality (and in my opinion more useful) entry-level ffp optic. my $.02, your mileage may vary...

[ryank]

I own a vortex viper PST and have been very impressed. I've had BSA and other cheap scopes and I can say you get what you pay for.

Buy once cry once.