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cheby

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  1. P320 Voluntary Upgrade, Will you do it?

    Below is the post from a different forum addressing this issue. I think it is spot-on: In 100 years of those non drop safe guns we have heard of them going off when dropped, even with very lethal outcomes, but not in any alarming rates despite a very large number of those guns in circulation. The 320 has been on the market only for three-four years and according to SIG's admission, there were 4 discharges in last year alone. Whatever SIG's apologists say about rarity of this event (500,000 guns sold etc), it actually may represent a significant rate of drop discharges. From a statistical analysis standpoint, the denominator should be a number of 320 dropped in a year, we don't have it but we should presume that dropping guns is not that common. The numerator is 4 but we actually don't know that either; it may be higher (underreporting bias) but it is unlikely to be less. That drop discharge rate could be actually in 1-4% rate, for all I know. It is distinctly possible that 320 in its current form is no less safe that a series 70 1911 but there is a possibility that it isn't. Regardless, the latest in a firearm design should be clearly safer that a 100 year old design yet there are doubts, as there are doubts that it is safer than 30 year Glock design with millions in circulation and barely any reports of drop discharges. In regards to the culpability and litigation, I am nearly speechless that SIG has chosen to "hide" behind the ANSI testing standards vs real life occurrences. In my line of work post-release device safety failures have costed manufacturers huge settlements even if devices had passed all safety standards during the development and received independent pre-release approvals. Based on these precedents, I believe that SIG will get their ass handed out to them in courts with their ANSI and NIJ standards if somebody gets injured with their "safe as is" 320. The instructors and match organizers may or may not be found negligent, depending on the case, but they will be sucked into the litigation. SIG calling it a voluntary upgrade is both a character flaw and a mistake. I am not an attorney but, having been detailed in numerous device safety recalls, I would advice trainers, ranges and match organizers to distance themselves from 320s (and any gun that is acknowledged to be unsafe in any way by its manufacturer) until a proven fix is implemented.
  2. Safety check at A3

    Exactly!
  3. Safety check at A3

    I just reread the manual again and I think the RO should not have even tried to put the safety on because " the trigger mechanism has been specifically adjusted, it is possible to move the safety onto the "SAFE" position even if the hammer is placed on the safety notch. In this case, however, it is strongly not recommended to engage the safety because the trigger mechanism might be damaged when cocking the hammer" Basically by trying to do that, the RO could damage the trigger mechanism. (BTW, what exactly could be damaged?) I think the wording in the manual could be presented as the statement from the OFM. I also think those two CZ's that did not pass the chrono stage at A3 were just fine. The problem, however, the A3 incident created the precedent that needs to be addressed ASAP because we are in the middle of the season and have the Nationals in 7 weeks (And CZ-USA being the main sponsor!!)
  4. Safety check at A3

    Please let us know if you get a response.
  5. Safety check at A3

    Okay how do we fix this? I have 2 shadows and 2 shadows 2s. All have identical parts in them: CZC hammers and discos. I can put the safety on on three of them while the hammer is down and move the trigger. One gun is different for some reason. Luckily, it is my main match gun. Any idea what needs to be replaced on those three guns? Hammers? Discos?
  6. P320 Voluntary Upgrade, Will you do it?

    This might be true and while it is debatable if "the chances of a gun going off when dropped is higher with 2011's with pinned grip safeties than the P320's", there is one important difference. 1911s and 2011s may go off while hitting ground with their muzzle, therefore, potentially discharging into the ground. In case of 320, it is quite opposite.
  7. Safety check at A3

    good question...
  8. Safety check at A3

    The following is from the Shadow 2 manual: "Since the trigger mechanism has been specifically adjusted, it is possible to move the safety onto the "SAFE" position even if the hammer is placed on the safety notch. In this case, however, it is strongly not recommended to engage the safety because the trigger mechanism might be damaged when cocking the hammer by force or pulling the trigger. If damage to the trigger mechanism occurs, let it be repaired by a certified gunsmith" This is from the Shadow manual: "Since the trigger mechanism has been specifically adjusted, it is possible to move the safety onto the "SAFE" position even if the hammer is placed on the safety notch or leaned against the slide. In this case, however, it is not recommended to engage the safety because the trigger mechanism might be damaged when cocking the hammer by force" It looks like the above should be enough to demonstrate that Shadow and Shadow 2 are different from SP-01 and should be okay for that A3 chrono check..... Right??
  9. Safety check at A3

    Please let us know if you receive any response from Troy.... really don't want to get into this shot at Nationals...
  10. Czechmate vs 2011

    As I understand, CZC sells some extended safety. Does this solve the issue? Looks like this one: https://czcustom.com/cz-parts-all/safeties/cz-tactical-sports-cz-ts-extended-ambi-safety-lhs.html
  11. P320 Voluntary Upgrade, Will you do it?

    This is intellectually dishonest. I am providing the arguments backed up by facts, logic, and evidence. You are responding based on your feelings and attacking me personally. Sorry about your feelings, but this issue impacts safety for all of us regardless of what pistol we are currently shooting .
  12. P320 Voluntary Upgrade, Will you do it?

    good article: http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2017/08/11/sig-p320-problems-questions/: "SIG owes the gun world some answers. We’ve seen behavior from them over the past nine days that is not only unbecoming of a major manufacturer (such as lying to a major police department), but bizarre and inexplicable (such as saying drop safeties “legitimize mishandling”)"
  13. Czechmate vs 2011

    This is exactly the reason why I am thinking of shooting Open for a while.. Thanks Jim, great post
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