H&G #68 SWC seating depth?

[AbitNutz]

Ok, I do it, it works but its always been a bit of a mystery to me. It seems the SOP for loading the H&G #68 SWC profile bullet is to seat the should above the rim of the case just a bit. How much is dependent upon what works in your barrel. I seat it out till the gun starts malfunctioning and then back off till it stops. 

I'm a little lost on how this came to be on a cartridge that is supposed to headspace on the case mouth. Of course, it really doesn't. The extractor just hold it to the breech face. Anyone know/have info on this procedure? Best method? Anything? The load I use is stupid accurate and feeds reliably so I'm not sure I see a reason to change to a more modern bullet design. 

 

[Beef15]

What's the question?

I determine max seating depth by plunk testing with any bullet, and adjust shorter if necessary for mags or feeding. With SWCs that typically results in a 32nd or less of the bearing surface protruding from the case mouth.

Pretty sure my 1911 does headspace off the case mouth, the extractor doesn't hold rounds tight to the breechface at all. I know some pistols can fire with only the extractor holding the cartridge in place as evidenced by the accidental and sometimes intentional firing of wrong cartridges, but that hardly makes it designed to function that way.

[Steve RA]

Usually 1.250" overall cartridge length.  May have to adjust for individual chamber.  Just measured some of mine and they are 1.258" and pass plunk test and are very accurate,

[rdinga]

1.250 has worked for me with dozens of 1911's.

[AbitNutz]

Does anyone have the results with this round like I do? I mean, it feeds, it's accurate...not sure why I would change/

[AbitNutz]

Here's a pic of what I'm going to use in a Magma Master Caster. It's a Magma H&G #68 200gr, no-groove, SWC BB HP. I'm going to coat it with Hi-Tek.

 

Edited September 15, 2016 by AbitNutz

[zzt]

You really cannot go by OAL with this bullet.  Even though there are boatloads sold as H&G 68, they are not all made from the H&G molds.  There are variations.  I won't mention brands.  There is one that will feed reliably at 1.250".  Several others require 1.240~1.242 for reliability.  Another won't feed unless it is 1.235".

I set my bullet seating depth using the shoulder of the SWC.  I do a plunk test.  Bullseye shooters generally want the shoulder touching the lands and the back of the case flush with the end of the hood.  For other uses, seat about .002~.003" deeper.  I use a hollow seating die.  The cylinder fits over the nose and pushes on the shoulder, so your shoulder depth is correct regardless of the shape of the nose.

[noylj]

COL with any SWC is the same: case head to shoulder length. I remove the barrel and adjust the COL until the case is just barely below flush with the barrel hood. That is the COL. I have loaded with the shoulder in contact with the lede with great success, but this is just a bit more forgiving.

So, for button-nose SWCs like the H&G 130, COL runs about 1.1455-1.1525" and long-nose SWCS like H&G 68s run 1.255-1.266". Mid-length nose bullets like the Precision Delta will be in-between (1.220-1.236"). Much easier to work with shoulder-to-case head dimension.

Get a seating stem that ONLY contacts the bullet's shoulder, and once it is set, you NEVER have to adjust for any SWC again. Lee will make one or you can find them on eBay. It also tends to straighten out the bullet during seating. Suggest all custom seating stems contact as low on bullet ogive as possible and make no other contact at all.

[AbitNutz]

3 hours ago, noylj said:

COL with any SWC is the same: case head to shoulder length. I remove the barrel and adjust the COL until the case is just barely below flush with the barrel hood. That is the COL. I have loaded with the shoulder in contact with the lede with great success, but this is just a bit more forgiving.

So, for button-nose SWCs like the H&G 130, COL runs about 1.1455-1.1525" and long-nose SWCS like H&G 68s run 1.255-1.266". Mid-length nose bullets like the Precision Delta will be in-between (1.220-1.236"). Much easier to work with shoulder-to-case head dimension.

Get a seating stem that ONLY contacts the bullet's shoulder, and once it is set, you NEVER have to adjust for any SWC again. Lee will make one or you can find them on eBay. It also tends to straighten out the bullet during seating. Suggest all custom seating stems contact as low on bullet ogive as possible and make no other contact at all.

That's an interesting notion...i'll go have a look see on eBay...not sure what the search criteria would be...

[zzt]

I don't think the guy who custom made them is selling on Ebay any more.  However, this one should work if you use a Dillon press.  http://www.uniquetek.com/site/696296/product/T1561

 

[AbitNutz]

Oh wow, that's cool...

Here's a pic of what that bullet mold produces...

 

[dsa]

What are they weighing out at with the hollow point?

[AbitNutz]

Yeah, they're light...but I think the reason is because I cast them in linotype. It was expedient to just drop a 35lb pig into the Master Caster to get things going...

They drop at 179-180 grains. I was worried they'd be heavy without the lube grooves...guess not. 

[AbitNutz]

I can't wait to see two things, how they perform. I expect (praying) them to shoot really well. The gun they're going through has shown to shoot almost anything and shoot it well. It's a gun I put together. It started life a Para-Ordnance Pro-Custom. I swapped out the slide for a Para-Ordnance Limited 6" Longslide with a Kart c/p ramped 6" barrel, briley bushing. Then I had it Magnaported. Then I screwed with just about everything else. The gun just runs and shoots straight. I have no idea why...I think it's haunted. Once I have it where I want it, I'm going to have it finished in "Black Nitride". 

These bullets are going to be coated with Hi-Tek bullet coating...this should allow me to push them to 45 Super velocities...my goal is 1350 FPS, should be about 11.0 grains of Power Pistol. I've developed the load with jacketed bullets. I hope it translates well to the coated cast bullets.

The second big thing is to see how these go through my GSI bullet feeder. Cast bullets almost universally suck going through bullet feeders. The lube gums up the works, makes a mess. The Hi-Tek coating is supposed to cure all these ills. This would be the first time I've been able to run cast through my GSI/XL-650. it would be a freakin' miracle!

After all is done, I plan to shoot the hell out of it!

 

 

 

[dsa]

Hi-TEK coated bullets run through my Mr Bullet Feeder and MA collator's without issue.  I don't think a different alloy will yield a 20 grain increase in weight.  Those are some good looking molds.

[fastluck13]

22 hours ago, AbitNutz said:

Oh wow, that's cool...

Here's a pic of what that bullet mold produces...

Those are awesome. Magma is right down the street from my house. Wish I was more motivated to cast.

 

[pskys2]

On 9/17/2016 at 1:47 AM, AbitNutz said:

I can't wait to see two things, how they perform. I expect (praying) them to shoot really well. The gun they're going through has shown to shoot almost anything and shoot it well. It's a gun I put together. It started life a Para-Ordnance Pro-Custom. I swapped out the slide for a Para-Ordnance Limited 6" Longslide with a Kart c/p ramped 6" barrel, briley bushing. Then I had it Magnaported. Then I screwed with just about everything else. The gun just runs and shoots straight. I have no idea why...I think it's haunted. Once I have it where I want it, I'm going to have it finished in "Black Nitride". 

These bullets are going to be coated with Hi-Tek bullet coating...this should allow me to push them to 45 Super velocities...my goal is 1350 FPS, should be about 11.0 grains of Power Pistol. I've developed the load with jacketed bullets. I hope it translates well to the coated cast bullets.

The second big thing is to see how these go through my GSI bullet feeder. Cast bullets almost universally suck going through bullet feeders. The lube gums up the works, makes a mess. The Hi-Tek coating is supposed to cure all these ills. This would be the first time I've been able to run cast through my GSI/XL-650. it would be a freakin' miracle!

After all is done, I plan to shoot the hell out of it!

 

 

 

Jacketed bullets always take more powder than lead or coated lead.  Might back off the load 10% or more and work up.

[AbitNutz]

36 minutes ago, pskys2 said:

Jacketed bullets always take more powder than lead or coated lead.  Might back off the load 10% or more and work up.

I think you're right about that. 10.0 gr of Power Pistol really rocks. I have to get some in front of my LabRadar unit.

[AbitNutz]

Man seating depth of the H&G #68 really is critical. I ran a small batch to test a new load and somehow the seating depth was changed. There was only a very small amount of the bullets shoulder sticking up above the case mouth. All of a sudden I started getting jams. This gun NEVER jams. Fortunately, I saw the shoulder/case mouth issue before I started doing drastic things to the pistol. I decided to see if that could possibly be the answer. I ran another small batch with the dimension from the top of the shoulder to the base of the case at .930. Guess what? No more jams.

The cartridge had been jamming when feeding the next round. The round would jam and stick at a cocked angle and not be fed into the chamber. It would lock hard in that position. Once I seated the bullet out a bit more, all was right with the world. I was really concerned that it would now be too long for the STI magazine. Fortunately, It worked. 

Finding the correct over all length versus the amount of the bullets shoulder above the case mouth is a balancing act. Fortunately, the .45 is a forging round to ham handed folks like me. 

[TDA]

On 9/17/2016 at 0:57 AM, AbitNutz said:

Yeah, they're light...but I think the reason is because I cast them in linotype. It was expedient to just drop a 35lb pig into the Master Caster to get things going...

They drop at 179-180 grains. I was worried they'd be heavy without the lube grooves...guess not. 

The pins in the mold that create the hollow point appear to be adjustable.

Retracting the pins slightly would result in a heavier bullet.

[AbitNutz]

8 hours ago, TDA said:

The pins in the mold that create the hollow point appear to be adjustable.

Retracting the pins slightly would result in a heavier bullet.

That's a good point...I believe they are adjustable. 

[AbitNutz]

I'm going to have the barrel throated. It turns out that the Kart barrels pretty much have zero throat...

[mlm]

I use a 200SWC with 5.4 gr of HP-38 at 1.1245-1.250 in a 1911 Government model that will feed beer cans or anything I put through it.

Also am running them in a MAC 3011 1911. No problems, the guns run like the energizer bunnie.

Good Luck

Mike

[Steve RA]

In regard to one of the posts above.  Cartridge Over All Length isn't from the case head to shoulder of the bullet, it's from the case head to the furthest point (nose) of bullet.  The distance from the case head to shoulder of bullet is what you have to adjust to fit your particular chamber length.

[AbitNutz]

So far so good. The Kart barrel has been chambered and throated and now also sports a nice reverse muzzle crown. It now a complete pig...it eats anything without hesitation or hiccup. I can now seat the bullets to the max the magazine will allow, 1.250.  It throws the Hi-Tek coated bullets at a lofty 1350 fps. The bullets are H&G #68 180gr SWC HP BB No-grease groove. After a real workout, the gun is no worse for wear and the barrel is completely lead free. Not a bit of leading anywhere. I was worried about the transition to the rifling but it is completely clean. I am now very confident in the functionality and performance of this pistol. It's a bit of a handful being a longslide, widebody throwing big and fast 45 bullets but the Magnaporting helps.