Can you keep quiet for two minutes?

[Flexmoney]

This thread covers similar stuff, but I wanted to share a recent experience: http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=182731&hl=%20broken&page=3

I'm officiating at a match. My stages doesn't have a shooter, so I am watching a shooter run on a stage about 40 yards from me. The stage is a 30 rounder, with little to complicate it (it's a hoser). So, when the shooter stops about half way through, my that gets my attention.

From my vantage point, it is some kind of malfunction. Perhaps a squib. The shooter starts working on the gun. I start a timer. I then start walking toward that stage, in case that stage's RO/CRO need to see the two minute count.

About that time, somebody brings some tools to the shooter from a shooting bag. I'm thinking, OK..that negates the need for my two minute timer. I start to return to my own stage when I realize they may be working on a hot gun (how do you run a squib rod without muzzling yourself).

I can't see the work being done, but lets assume it somehow got done without muzzling (that is a whole 'nuther topic).

I believe it ended up being a stuck case. That gets rectified. And then...the shooter starts shooting again.

[Flatland Shooter]

And nobody saw anything wrong with this?

[Flexmoney]

So I i head over to speak with the RO. The question is who did what stopping? Where did the tools come from?

The tools were not on the shooter's person. The shooter did not stop themselves.

Lots of learnings are available with this one.

[Strick]

I would say 8.6.4 followed by 8.6.2 unless the shooter called his buddy over with the tools. If the shooter did call for help then the shooter basically stopped themselves and gets scored out.......IMO

Of course if a Level I 8.6.2.1 would/could apply.

Edited June 13, 2016 by Strick

[chaosshooter00]

I've noticed the rules seem to be a great "guideline" in local matches and seems to be a growing trend in higher matches as well. I got my RO cert as soon as I could after I joined and started implementing rules at every match I shot. According to rumor, I had DQ'd more people than one whole range combined by my fourth year. As a result, I rarely run the clock or score any more ( I was told I score "too fast") and spend my down time setting and taping. Most of the locals come to me to ask rules questions, they know I've read them, which I find hypocritical sees how they are the same rules I was enforcing to catch my bad rap. As for the OP, whether he stopped himself or the RO stopped him, his stage was done. The first round fired after the fact was a DQ. MHO

[Sarge]

I've noticed the rules seem to be a great "guideline" in local matches and seems to be a growing trend in higher matches as well. I got my RO cert as soon as I could after I joined and started implementing rules at every match I shot. According to rumor, I had DQ'd more people than one whole range combined by my fourth year. As a result, I rarely run the clock or score any more ( I was told I score "too fast") and spend my down time setting and taping. Most of the locals come to me to ask rules questions, they know I've read them, which I find hypocritical sees how they are the same rules I was enforcing to catch my bad rap. As for the OP, whether he stopped himself or the RO stopped him, his stage was done. The first round fired after the fact was a DQ. MHO

If you came up with a DQ from what you read it's no wonder the locals don't want you on the timer.

[Nik Habicht]

As for the OP, whether he stopped himself or the RO stopped him, his stage was done. The first round fired after the fact was a DQ. MHO

On the first part -- shooter stops himself -- that's not going to be a DQ absent an ignored "Stop" command from the RO or some other safety rule violation. Now, if the RO stops the shooter and issues "Unload and show clear" and the gun goes bang -- then I'm with you on the DQ.

[GrumpyOne]

Picture a large "U" shaped squib rod, where the shooter can hold one side of the "U" and slide the other into the barrel, then place the bottom of the "U" on the ground, and push down on the gun...don't know if it will work, but it would keep the shooter from sweeping themselves if it did...now, back to the regualrly scheduled programming...

[motosapiens]

or a t-shaped squib rod (which i have actually seen numerous times. easy to insert without sweeping, then you can bang the rod against something solid.

I have nothing to add to the original topic. I'm waiting for flex to educate us, since on this forum he is usually helpful and interesting.

[chaosshooter00]

I've noticed the rules seem to be a great "guideline" in local matches and seems to be a growing trend in higher matches as well. I got my RO cert as soon as I could after I joined and started implementing rules at every match I shot. According to rumor, I had DQ'd more people than one whole range combined by my fourth year. As a result, I rarely run the clock or score any more ( I was told I score "too fast") and spend my down time setting and taping. Most of the locals come to me to ask rules questions, they know I've read them, which I find hypocritical sees how they are the same rules I was enforcing to catch my bad rap. As for the OP, whether he stopped himself or the RO stopped him, his stage was done. The first round fired after the fact was a DQ. MHO

If you came up with a DQ from what you read it's no wonder the locals don't want you on the timer.

You're probably right, I assume the RO knew the rules and after 120 seconds, 5.7.4 kicks in and the course is finished. If he let the shooter continue, se la vi.

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

[Sarge]

As for the OP, whether he stopped himself or the RO stopped him, his stage was done. The first round fired after the fact was a DQ. MHO

On the first part -- shooter stops himself -- that's not going to be a DQ absent an ignored "Stop" command from the RO or some other safety rule violation. Now, if the RO stops the shooter and issues "Unload and show clear" and the gun goes bang -- then I'm with you on the DQ.

Actually you can fire up until receiving, " if clear hammer down and holster"

[Nik Habicht]

As for the OP, whether he stopped himself or the RO stopped him, his stage was done. The first round fired after the fact was a DQ. MHO

On the first part -- shooter stops himself -- that's not going to be a DQ absent an ignored "Stop" command from the RO or some other safety rule violation. Now, if the RO stops the shooter and issues "Unload and show clear" and the gun goes bang -- then I'm with you on the DQ.

Actually you can fire up until receiving, " if clear hammer down and holster"

Not if I say "Stop! Unload and show clear." That COULD be a DQ under 10.6.1. I've never needed to make that call, even on competitors who didn't react to the first "Stop" command, but I can envision circumstances where that could occur.....

And re reading my earlier post -- I'd probably change "then I'm with you on the DQ" to "then I'm possibly with you on the DQ." English -- difficult!

[Nik Habicht]

And t make it even more clear -- I wasn't talking about an unloading goof where the gun goes bang as part of showing clear. I was thinking more of a situation where a competitor hears and decides to ignore the "Stop" command.....

If you clear the malfunction after that fact and resume shooting, that's not cool....

[Alaskapopo]

I've noticed the rules seem to be a great "guideline" in local matches and seems to be a growing trend in higher matches as well. I got my RO cert as soon as I could after I joined and started implementing rules at every match I shot. According to rumor, I had DQ'd more people than one whole range combined by my fourth year. As a result, I rarely run the clock or score any more ( I was told I score "too fast") and spend my down time setting and taping. Most of the locals come to me to ask rules questions, they know I've read them, which I find hypocritical sees how they are the same rules I was enforcing to catch my bad rap. As for the OP, whether he stopped himself or the RO stopped him, his stage was done. The first round fired after the fact was a DQ. MHO

Uh NO! There are issues there but not a DQ. You DQ people when you must under the rules you don't look for creative ways to try to make the rules justify your DQ.

Edited June 15, 2016 by Alaskapopo

[Sarge]

And t make it even more clear -- I wasn't talking about an unloading goof where the gun goes bang as part of showing clear. I was thinking more of a situation where a competitor hears and decides to ignore the "Stop" command.....

If you clear the malfunction after that fact and resume shooting, that's not cool....

That's closer to making sense.

[Sarge]

I've noticed the rules seem to be a great "guideline" in local matches and seems to be a growing trend in higher matches as well. I got my RO cert as soon as I could after I joined and started implementing rules at every match I shot. According to rumor, I had DQ'd more people than one whole range combined by my fourth year. As a result, I rarely run the clock or score any more ( I was told I score "too fast") and spend my down time setting and taping. Most of the locals come to me to ask rules questions, they know I've read them, which I find hypocritical sees how they are the same rules I was enforcing to catch my bad rap. As for the OP, whether he stopped himself or the RO stopped him, his stage was done. The first round fired after the fact was a DQ. MHO

Uh NO! There are issues there but not a DQ. You DQ people when you must under the rules you don't look for creative ways to try to make the rules justify your DQ.

Yeah. There is either a serious misunderstanding here or a more serious lack of regard for the rules

[d_striker]

(how do you run a squib rod without muzzling yourself).

But yeah, if it's just a straight rod isn't it impossible to not muzzle yourself?

Edited June 15, 2016 by d_striker

[kevin c]

Straight rod significantly more narrow than the bore wiil allow the end to be inserted into the first half inch or so of the muzzle while tilted at an angle. If the rod is long enough, holding it at the other end without advancing the rod keeps the fingers in front of the plane of the muzzle but below bore axis. Put the free end against a solid surface and remove the hand on the rod. Then pushing forward with the gun while adjusting the angle between rod and gun gets the rod into the bore.. Then you push with the gun against the braced rod, rather than pushing the rod against the braced gun.

But it's a whole lot easier to use an Arredondo squib rod ;^D

[Flexmoney]

You guys have a LOT more experience with squibs than I do.

[Sarge]

Straight rod significantly more narrow than the bore wiil allow the end to be inserted into the first half inch or so of the muzzle while tilted at an angle. If the rod is long enough, holding it at the other end without advancing the rod keeps the fingers in front of the plane of the muzzle but below bore axis. Put the free end against a solid surface and remove the hand on the rod. Then pushing forward with the gun while adjusting the angle between rod and gun gets the rod into the bore.. Then you push with the gun against the braced rod, rather than pushing the rod against the braced gun.

But it's a whole lot easier to use an Arredondo squib rod ;^D

Jeezzal peetes! It's actually easier to just load good ammo! I prefer not to become a GM at removing squibs from my guns.

It always cracks me up to see a guy making ready with a squib rod in his back pocket! lol

[motosapiens]

Straight rod significantly more narrow than the bore wiil allow the end to be inserted into the first half inch or so of the muzzle while tilted at an angle. If the rod is long enough, holding it at the other end without advancing the rod keeps the fingers in front of the plane of the muzzle but below bore axis. Put the free end against a solid surface and remove the hand on the rod. Then pushing forward with the gun while adjusting the angle between rod and gun gets the rod into the bore.. Then you push with the gun against the braced rod, rather than pushing the rod against the braced gun.

But it's a whole lot easier to use an Arredondo squib rod ;^D

Jeezzal peetes! It's actually easier to just load good ammo! I prefer not to become a GM at removing squibs from my guns.

It always cracks me up to see a guy making ready with a squib rod in his back pocket! lol

if you RO much, I would think you'd get to be a GM at removing squibs just from helping newbs who make mistakes. I've only had 1 squib in the last year or so (split case that left the bullet halfway down the barrel!), but I have helped clear a bunch of them at wednesday night steel matches as well as uspsa matches.

[Flexmoney]

if you RO much, I would think you'd get to be a GM at removing squibs just from helping newbs who make mistakes. I've only had 1 squib in the last year

Does that make you a newb???

So anyway...what was the point of this thread?

[motosapiens]

So anyway...what was the point of this thread?

I thought it was for you to educate us on how to handle malfunctions and what is legally allowed under the rules.

[Flexmoney]

I thought it was for you to educate us on how to handle malfunctions and what is legally allowed under the rules.

Maybe you can help out? Which rules might apply?

[Sarge]

Flex I sent you a PM.

We'll never mind, you can't receive PMS?

Was it the far left stage?

Edited June 15, 2016 by Sarge