Need advice with kids and practical shooting

[Fried Chicken Blowout]

What's the best way to get young teens into USPSA shooting. Where should they start? Maybe MarkCO can chime in on this because I know he's done a bunch of junior related matches. My son has really limited interest in shooing .22LR guns so I don't want to sink a ton of money into a bunch of stuff for rimfire comps and then have him want to shot in USPSA production shortly there after. I already have all the gear for USPSA for him, but he needs to be exposed to something else before I open him up to a confusing fast paced match like that. The other issue is, he does not take instruction from me well. He's better off with a 3rd party teaching him skills. His training up to this point has been limited because he's a video game kid and wants everything to be moving at light speed all the time which does not work for me so he gets frustrated.

Is there something like a steel challenge camp in Colorado or the ability to shoot a few steel challenge matches with borrowed rimfire equipment, then have him use the 9mm for another couple steel challenge matches and then see if he's ready for USPSA? I'm not sure what the normal progression is here before you turn these kids loose with lots of movement on the range.

Thanks for the input.

Jason

[MarkCO]

The most important thing is safety. Muzzle awareness, trigger finger awareness, 4 laws of gun safety. If they don't have those totally down, they should not be in timer based competition yet. WAY too many pre-teens who are not ready, not safe are being entered in match by irresponsible parents. I have had to tell several this year I would not let them continue because they were not ready.

Read the post from today on the Element MultiGun FB page. Rimfire is where it is at to get fundamentals down with youth. Pistol caliber carbine is also a good option.

I am sure you can borrow a rimfire pistol for Steel Challenge. Blake started shooting 9mm at 11, but his younger brother, now 11 is not quite ready for action pistol matches. Every kid is different.

If you want to hit a SC match at CRC, can bring the boys and a spare pistol and they can shoot together. That is helpful to some kids.

[Linkscoach]

I'm soon to be in the same boat. Steel challenge seems like the best/next step in the progression. Lots of opportunities to build skill without the added complexity of movement and reloads.

Plus, the two of you can compete against each other on a pretty level field.

[Fried Chicken Blowout]

Mark,

Thanks for the input and the offer, I'd like to take you up on it. Looks like I'm available 11/21, are you pretty much at all the Steel Challenge matches? What time does setup and the match start, didn't see that on the section or CRC site? I'll talk with my son and confirm with you via email.

Thanks, Jason

[MarkCO]

If they have it November, I will likely be there. Set up at 8 I think, shoot at 10.

[MarkCO]

Working on the development of a new sport as well. Pretty cool. Can't post a lot of details until after the SHOT show, but I think it is going to be huge for newer and novice shooters.

[Fried Chicken Blowout]

Excellent, thanks Mark!

[jlo86cj]

If you have a Glock, GSSF is also a good option for new shooters. My son shot a couple of GSSF matches before I let him shoot his first USPSA match at 12. The lack of safeties on the Glock makes it a little easier also.

[MarkCO]

Glocks have safeties.

[CZinZA]

I've got two kids (6&9). I started out training them using airsoft (using a WE Hi -Capa 5.1) The older one now shoots a .22LR pistol as well. It's a good way to start because airsoft is almost completely safe and you can start them slowly in a low pressure way (and with no recoil). I started with safe dry fire gun handling and moved on from there....

[9x45]

Glocks have safeties.

Yes, but they are invisible. When did Glock stop making the ceramic slides? and carbon fiber barrels?

Edited October 23, 2015 by 9x45

[Nik Habicht]

Glocks have safeties.

Yes, but they are invisible. When did Glock stop making the ceramic slides? and carbon fiber barrels?

When they discontinued the Model 7? After all I saw that in a movie -- so it would have to be true, right?

[PatriotMRD]

Glocks have safeties.

Yes, but they are invisible. When did Glock stop making the ceramic slides? and carbon fiber barrels?

When they discontinued the Model 7? After all I saw that in a movie -- so it would have to be true, right?

And they weren't just ceramic, they were porcelain. They don't show up on airport x-ray machines and they cost more than you make in a month.

[PatriotMRD]

Sorry, couldn't resist.

[Nik Habicht]

Glocks have safeties.

Yes, but they are invisible. When did Glock stop making the ceramic slides? and carbon fiber barrels?

When they discontinued the Model 7? After all I saw that in a movie -- so it would have to be true, right?

And they weren't just ceramic, they were porcelain. They don't show up on airport x-ray machines and they cost more than you make in a month.

And now that it's on the internet -- it's definitely true!

To get back to the OP's question -- I agree with Mark -- it'll depend upon the kid, in terms of when they're ready. How is the kid on a range normally? Is he able to safely shoot on a common firing line? Does he understand the meaning of "Stop" to be Stop whatever you're doing, finger off the trigger, muzzle pointing in a safe direction, wait for instruction? How is he with responding to the USPSA range commands? Can he safely run the manual of arms for his blaster when given the commands? Can the kid work with a holster, and reload on the clock? How;s the 180 awareness?

I've passed youngsters on a safety check who were calm, could respond to direction, knew how their guns worked -- and how to clear shooter induced malfunctions safely-- and I've not passed other kids who did more than they were asked to do, got confused and rather than wait for instructions, decided to do their own thing, or couldn't keep their finger off the trigger. I've also not passed plenty of folks who simply didn't understand how their gun worked -- both youth and adult.

In any case where folks don't pass, I've delivered the new privately, and suggested how to fix their knowledge or skill gaps, so they could safely compete in the future.

Assuming that a kid is calm, can respond to range commands, and knows the manual of arms, I'd always start them with a few steel challenge matches as the transition to competition. Once those go well, a USPSA practice session is in order. To make it steel challenge relatable, it can be as simple as a few boxes on the ground and a couple of targets. Start with simple drills -- engage each target, walk to the next box directly downrange, gun up in sight line, engage each target again. Then you slowly proceed to picking up the movement pace, adding reloads -- first static in a box, then on the move between positions, angled movement -- first without reloads, then with -- retrograde movement, and finally side to side movement. Add in some shooting around barricades or through a port, and you're done.

And use USPSA range commands for each live fire drill. By the time you're done, the student should have cone through them a couple of dozen times.....

Depending on the student, you might be able to do it in 4 hours, or it could take all day, or several sessions.....

After all that -- they're ready to walk through the stages of a USPSA match as a competitor. First match I'd insist on nothing faster than a walking pace -- the absolute emphasis should be on safety and hitting the targets.....

[Fried Chicken Blowout]

Glocks have safeties.

Yes, but they are invisible. When did Glock stop making the ceramic slides? and carbon fiber barrels?

When they discontinued the Model 7? After all I saw that in a movie -- so it would have to be true, right?

And they weren't just ceramic, they were porcelain. They don't show up on airport x-ray machines and they cost more than you make in a month.

And now that it's on the internet -- it's definitely true!

To get back to the OP's question -- I agree with Mark -- it'll depend upon the kid, in terms of when they're ready. How is the kid on a range normally? Is he able to safely shoot on a common firing line? Does he understand the meaning of "Stop" to be Stop whatever you're doing, finger off the trigger, muzzle pointing in a safe direction, wait for instruction? How is he with responding to the USPSA range commands? Can he safely run the manual of arms for his blaster when given the commands? Can the kid work with a holster, and reload on the clock? How;s the 180 awareness?

I've passed youngsters on a safety check who were calm, could respond to direction, knew how their guns worked -- and how to clear shooter induced malfunctions safely-- and I've not passed other kids who did more than they were asked to do, got confused and rather than wait for instructions, decided to do their own thing, or couldn't keep their finger off the trigger. I've also not passed plenty of folks who simply didn't understand how their gun worked -- both youth and adult.

In any case where folks don't pass, I've delivered the new privately, and suggested how to fix their knowledge or skill gaps, so they could safely compete in the future.

Assuming that a kid is calm, can respond to range commands, and knows the manual of arms, I'd always start them with a few steel challenge matches as the transition to competition. Once those go well, a USPSA practice session is in order. To make it steel challenge relatable, it can be as simple as a few boxes on the ground and a couple of targets. Start with simple drills -- engage each target, walk to the next box directly downrange, gun up in sight line, engage each target again. Then you slowly proceed to picking up the movement pace, adding reloads -- first static in a box, then on the move between positions, angled movement -- first without reloads, then with -- retrograde movement, and finally side to side movement. Add in some shooting around barricades or through a port, and you're done.

And use USPSA range commands for each live fire drill. By the time you're done, the student should have cone through them a couple of dozen times.....

Depending on the student, you might be able to do it in 4 hours, or it could take all day, or several sessions.....

After all that -- they're ready to walk through the stages of a USPSA match as a competitor. First match I'd insist on nothing faster than a walking pace -- the absolute emphasis should be on safety and hitting the targets.....

Nik,

Thanks for the post. Very good points. I ended up getting him a new Ruger 22/45 with some of Mark's advice and will work with him on range commands and manual of arms before hand to make sure he's squared away before the first match. He's a safe kid with guns but when we put them in front of other people and they get nervous, all kinds of things can happen.

Thanks

[Sarge]

Glocks have safeties.

Yes, but they are invisible. When did Glock stop making the ceramic slides? and carbon fiber barrels?

When they discontinued the Model 7? After all I saw that in a movie -- so it would have to be true, right?

And they weren't just ceramic, they were porcelain. They don't show up on airport x-ray machines and they cost more than you make in a month.

And now that it's on the internet -- it's definitely true!

To get back to the OP's question -- I agree with Mark -- it'll depend upon the kid, in terms of when they're ready. How is the kid on a range normally? Is he able to safely shoot on a common firing line? Does he understand the meaning of "Stop" to be Stop whatever you're doing, finger off the trigger, muzzle pointing in a safe direction, wait for instruction? How is he with responding to the USPSA range commands? Can he safely run the manual of arms for his blaster when given the commands? Can the kid work with a holster, and reload on the clock? How;s the 180 awareness?

I've passed youngsters on a safety check who were calm, could respond to direction, knew how their guns worked -- and how to clear shooter induced malfunctions safely-- and I've not passed other kids who did more than they were asked to do, got confused and rather than wait for instructions, decided to do their own thing, or couldn't keep their finger off the trigger. I've also not passed plenty of folks who simply didn't understand how their gun worked -- both youth and adult.

In any case where folks don't pass, I've delivered the new privately, and suggested how to fix their knowledge or skill gaps, so they could safely compete in the future.

Assuming that a kid is calm, can respond to range commands, and knows the manual of arms, I'd always start them with a few steel challenge matches as the transition to competition. Once those go well, a USPSA practice session is in order. To make it steel challenge relatable, it can be as simple as a few boxes on the ground and a couple of targets. Start with simple drills -- engage each target, walk to the next box directly downrange, gun up in sight line, engage each target again. Then you slowly proceed to picking up the movement pace, adding reloads -- first static in a box, then on the move between positions, angled movement -- first without reloads, then with -- retrograde movement, and finally side to side movement. Add in some shooting around barricades or through a port, and you're done.

And use USPSA range commands for each live fire drill. By the time you're done, the student should have cone through them a couple of dozen times.....

Depending on the student, you might be able to do it in 4 hours, or it could take all day, or several sessions.....

After all that -- they're ready to walk through the stages of a USPSA match as a competitor. First match I'd insist on nothing faster than a walking pace -- the absolute emphasis should be on safety and hitting the targets.....

Nik,

Thanks for the post. Very good points. I ended up getting him a new Ruger 22/45 with some of Mark's advice and will work with him on range commands and manual of arms before hand to make sure he's squared away before the first match. He's a safe kid with guns but when we put them in front of other people and they get nervous, all kinds of things can happen.

Thanks

Then everybody else gets nervous as well.

[e5gator]

you can get him a 9mm glock or M&P to shoot at steel challenge matches, that can teach him the basics of drawing from a holster and trigger control and then if he enjoys it you can use the same gun for production.