Designing a par time stage

[RevoWood123]

So I am thinking for our next match at Silver Creek I wanted to do a par time steel course. As a general rule, do you usually allow for 1 second for each target placed? That is what I could gather from most par time stages I have seen. It also seemed as though shooting certain sets of targets clean (I.E. plate rack, star, all black/red/orange) gets you a time bonus such as -3 or -5 secs. I am just trying to figure out timing as far as how much time should be allowed per target out there and what if any bonuses should be applied.

[seanc]

This past IRC I think was 35 pieces with a 30 sec par time. Almost of if was very close and very easy, daring you to go to fast which is pretty much exactly what everyone did.

At morro, the par steel was...if I recall were 3 different colors, white/red/blue for a total of 14 plates(6/5/4) then 3 total 4" plates at 20 yards that were worth 2 seconds each. Total par time 20 sec with mandatory reload between colors.

There are alot of ways to slice par steel.

[Bosshoss]

Par time all steel courses are fun. Depending on how many targets but 1 second per target is a good start. If the match has a lot of new shooters and/or less experienced shooters 1 shot per second will be way fast.

To score it should be -1 second for each target shot. 30 targets in 30 seconds if you hit 20 of the targets that would be a time of 10 seconds, Some one who gets 18 gets a score of 12 seconds, etc.

Any other bonuses of -3 or -5 seconds favors the better shooters and make the spread between the top and bottom wider. No need for it IMO.

Be careful with par time courses with some difficult targets as it will lead to some gaming of the stage. Like the polish plate rack in a par time course of fire shooters will skip the polish plate rack to get to the easier targets. While this is OK IMO everyone should have the chance to shoot the polish plate rack with out trashing the stage.(maybe put it in another stage or at the very last position in the par time course).

[Carmoney]

Glad to see people are including a Pro-Am style stage in ICORE matches. To my knowledge, our Iowa matches were the first ICORE matches to incorporate such a stage--or were other clubs doing the same thing before us?

[RevoWood123]

The previous MD to me did a couple par time stages in the past. I have always thought they looked fun, but had never shot one and wanted to make sure I understood it well enough to design one. I always aim to challenge shooters at whatever level they are on while make it fun enough that they want to shoot it again. With the par stage I am planning to use static or easy to reset steel (plate rack or poppers/colt speeds). I know par times can mess with people a lot of times, getting hung up in one spot (especially newer shooters) and then they get frustrated. I wasn't sure if the bonuses would help or hurt in those instances. Either way they are bound to encounter something like it at some point and why shouldn't I be the one to piss them off first? ;-)

Also, I'm going to measure and make sure we have he space, I want to do the dreaded Near and Far Standard. I've never shot it, I want to feel the pain and anguish others have mentioned that comes from this stage.

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Edited October 9, 2015 by RevoWood123

[varminter22]

Actually, Stillwater Firearms has been incorporating Pro Am style stages for quite some time. At our 2012 Midwest Regional, Stage 6 was "Pro Am Steel."

[RevoWood123]

For the next question. Does anybody know how to set up such a stage in Practiscore? I see fixed time options, but you don't input the fixed amount of time anywhere. I'm trying to get into the 21st century with scoring, its just not always cooperative.

[Ty Hamby]

For the next question. Does anybody know how to set up such a stage in Practiscore? I see fixed time options, but you don't input the fixed amount of time anywhere. I'm trying to get into the 21st century with scoring, its just not always cooperative.

At the current moment Fixed time for ICORE is different depending on iOS or Android. With iOS you cant add bonus targets to the stage like you can with Android. Android Fixed time does not even compute correctly in ver. 1.3.6

For now I would stick to Unlimited scoring for Par Time stages and just enter plate count then score misses and penalties. Enter everones time as zero. Do not enter any raw time and only score misses and penalties.

The fixed time for ICORE is currently goofy.

Edited November 4, 2015 by Ty Hamby

[euxx]

At the current moment Fixed time for ICORE is different depending on iOS or Android. With iOS you cant add bonus targets to the stage like you can with Android. Android Fixed time does not even compute correctly in ver. 1.3.6

That is new to me. Was it ever reported to support@practiscore.com ?

[Bubber]

One item you may wish to look into is that on a par time stage any targets not hit will net a 5 second penalty. The rulebook does not cover a "Pro-Am" type of stage. Partime stage with or without movement, and declaring it a "Pro-Am" stage may free you up a little.

[RevoWood123]

Per the ICORE rule book, miss or FTE penalties are not assessed for targets not hit on a fixed time stage. You have the fixed time which counts down to zero. Everybody starts off with the same time score (i.e. 30 secs) then you subtract 1 sec for each plate hit. Best score is a 0 for time, or if you allow, a negative time for the stage (-2, -4, -5).

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[Ty Hamby]

It would be nice if we could make up our own bonus or penalty times. This was simple when we used Time Plus, but with ICORE we can only use the pre-programed penalties and bonus's if iOS is part of your loop of devices.

[Bubber]

Per the ICORE rule book, miss or FTE penalties are not assessed for targets not hit on a fixed time stage. You have the fixed time which counts down to zero. Everybody starts off with the same time score (i.e. 30 secs) then you subtract 1 sec for each plate hit. Best score is a 0 for time, or if you allow, a negative time for the stage (-2, -4, -5).

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Look closely at the scoring for the Fix Time Stage, Standards, FTE's are not penalized but Misses are. Just something to think about and maybe either cover it in the Rulebook "IF" it becomes an issue.

[RevoWood123]

The penalty for a miss on par time stages is not picking up the -1 to lower the shooter's time. On standards they are penalized differently, (like far and near, which is x-count) but on a regular par time stage, misses are not penalized the same as a miss. They are considered not hit because of par time expiration and therefore do not lower the shooters time, but time is not added. Procedurals, foot faults, premature start, or overtime shot on the other hand are still assessed.

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[RevoWood123]

Bubber, I believe you may be correct in that misses (targets that were shot at, but not hit) are penalized in par time stages. I have been doing a lot of watching different stages and seeing how they equate to scores posted. The FTEs are not assessed if due to Par Time Expiration, but if a target is shot at, and not hit, it does count as a miss.

[Bosshoss]

Not sure about this. How can the RO determine if shooter actually shot at that steel or paper? Has miss penalties been applied to the far and near standards over the years?

On a par time stage with several shooting positions and say 6 poppers from one position. I'm shooting classic and know if I miss a popper it is not worth doing a standing reload so I will reload moving to next position and leave the popper. After run RO says you have a miss, I will say no I never shot at that popper I shot at the one next to it and missed it but shot again and hit it the second time.

How is the RO going to prove that I shot at and missed the standing popper?

[RevoWood123]

Good point BossHoss. I figured that it shouldn't be a penalty, but the rules seemed to make me think otherwise. I can see how it would also cause unnecessary confrontation as well since the shooter would not have finished the stage anyway, he would not want to be assessed further penalties. I think I am just going to roll with the original idea I had towards it.

[MWP]

No penalties for missed targets on a par time stage. Your score is the number of plates that fell.

[AzShooter]

There is a penalty for FTE and Misses on Far and Near Standards, unless it's changed since I last shot it. But that's been a few years.

[Bubber]

There is a difference between "Par time Stages and Pro Am stages" There is nothing in the rules about a Pro Am type stages, even though they have been used a number of years. On the Standards (Par time) Misses are penalized but FTE's are not. I hear that they are looking into it now and hammering out some stuff. The par time rule is covered in rule 6.6.5.2. FTE shall not apply for any target not engaged due to Par Time expiration.

Edited April 22, 2016 by Bubber

[AzShooter]

I thought I might be wrong. Thanks Roger I knew you will know the right answer.

[RevoWood123]

That is more along the lines of what we were running, a Pro Am style stage, and we scored the number of plates that fell only. We did run Far and Near as well, which we did assess penalties for misses in that case. I had some confusion over the matter at first, and I knew that Stds, such as Far and Near, were supposed to be penalized for misses. I hope that they do cover more of that down the road, it may help prevent the confusion I had over it. We had a lot of fun shooting it regardless, however, I do think that next time I will run it straight time first before setting what the par time should be. The way I had the arrays set up, I don't believe I gave enough time to actually complete the course.