World Shoot 2005....team Stars & Stripes

[dirtypool40]

"Team STARS & STRIPES"

Has this been done, or is it even possible?

Here's the thing; it's a shame the lack of US participation in international matches. We had like six guys in the recent Pan Americano, and we may not even read about it in Front Site.

In 2005 we have the WORLD SHOOT right here, a quick flight from anywhere in the US. The range is nice, and the guys I know who just shot there raved about the hospitality. Do we want only our top four or five guys going? We need more gringos down there in '05.

I am going, and I would like to organize an unofficial team of US "privateers" to squad up with. I'll be down in Bolivia so I'll have some idea of what to expect from rules, equipment and language, and I'll be shooting with two guys, also gringos who have been down there longer than I have and have it all wired.

Let's get out there, show the Stars and Stripes and show the international IPSC community that we are not scared, or snobs, or whatever they think when we don't show up to all these great international matches.

I figure we get some team shirts made up, something appropriately patriotic, but not as weird as the Americans had to wear last time, maybe nice golf shirts. We help each other out with gear and arrangements like other teams do and then we have a blast. I mean this is a world shoot, close to us. Make time for it and have something to brag about for the rest of your shooting career.

what do you think?

What problems do you see?

Start saving now, and it ain't any worse than going to the nationals or an area match you have to fly to.

[Jake Di Vita]

I'd love to, but a 20 year old (in 05) flying internationaly with firearms would probably spell disaster.

[dirtypool40]

LIMITED / STANDARD shooters:

I'll get you started, with both positives and negatives.

I shoot Limited and my pistole' won't fit in the box.

It will if you put a Krebs, STI or SVI magwell on it, and it's not a 6" gun. Magazines are another issure and I intend to have a dozen so there will be a few to loan out. the guys I am plkanning to go with each have around twenty. Your .40 blaster will hold around 17 rounds with these.

They will make you move things back a bit, especially the first mag pouch, at least for me. Holster position is not a big deal, at least for me, but appendix position lovers will need to adjust a bit.

Your limited Rig is the set up you need. The only other change I can think of offhand is power factor. For some reason the IPSC body has gone with two power factors and for Standard it's 170. So bump it up a few tenths. You wanna make around a 175 to be safe.

I know the targets are tough, but a lot of clubs in teh US shoot them, and you can score really well be being smooth. Blinding speed is not as important as accuracy. Yeah, I kinda hate that too....lol

[dirtypool40]

OPEN Shooters

No change needed, in fact if you want to you can drop the powder charge a tenth or two. Leave it in there if your gun runs good and it'll leave you that margin you want for making it at the chrono.

Keep the gun clean and lightly lubed, it's dusty down there. Know your zero and how to do condition 3 & 4 starts....for some reason they love those in international matches. Watch tapes of Grafful, he has obviously put time in on these.

[dirtypool40]

PRODUCTION SHOOTERS

Here's where IPSC gets cooler than USPSA;

You can wear a race rig, just behind the point of hip.

You can shoot high caps, loaded all the way up, flat bottomed ones only, so you can cut courses up more naturally.

Sorry no Glock 34's, but your 17 is THE trick rig. you see a lot of CZ's and some Taurus 7 Berrettas too. And yes, you still can only make minor, so cheap WalMart 9mm is THE match ammo.

[blkbrd]

September in Guayaquil Ecuador? sounds like fun.

Is as cheap as some of the surrounding countries?

[Vince Pinto]

Hi guys,

What problems do you see?

While I really admire your enthusiasm, there is a problem (or at least something you must consider), and that is slots.

For IPSC Level IV (Continental) and Level V (World Shoot) matches, each member Region is awarded a percentage of the total slots available for the match. This is calculated pro rata according to the average number of members declared and paid by your Region to IPSC in the preceding 3 years (i.e. since the last World Shoot). Hence, if your Region has (on average) 5% of the total membership paid to IPSC, it's entitled to 5% of the slots.

Once the slots are allocated to each Region, the Regional Directorate (in your case, the USPSA), decides how those slots are made available to it's members. In other words, when it comes to the World Shoot, you can't just decide to go, pay the registration fee, and shoot the match - you need a slot from the USPSA (or whoever is your Regional Directorate). Of course official Regional Teams (e.g. Gold, Silver etc.) usually come first, followed by other top shooters and so on, but there were USPSA competitors in South Africa who were not GM or M grade.

The good news is that although the "official" number of slots available is only 525, in recent years we've squeezed a few more in with creative use of the "pre-match" (e.g. there were 800 competitors at WSXIII in South Africa!!). The other good news is that if, say, IPSC Guacamole has earned 8 slots, but they only need 4, the slots which are not required are then returned to IPSC for re-distribution to those on the waiting list (and no, Regions cannot give them away or sell them - they "use them or lose them" back to IPSC).

Having said all that, and as far as I can recall, everyone who wanted to shoot the last two World Shoots got a slot. It takes some juggling, but so far, so good. Typically, the USPSA gets about 40 slots in the first tranche, but I think they obtained another 10 (possibly more) in the second tranche last time.

By the way, I don't mean to rain on anybody's parade, but I also don't want people incurring costs before they have a slot. If you live in the USA and are a member of the USPSA, I suggest you send an "expression of interest" to Dave Thomas at Sedro Woolley (or to USPSA President Mike Voigt), towards the end of 2004 (the slots are allocated early 2005).

Hope this information helps.

[Vince Pinto]

Jake,

One more thing - your age is irrelevant when travelling with firearms. Provided you have all your documentation in order to exit (and return to) the USA, our good friends in IPSC Ecuador will "fast track" you on arrival.

We've had 18 year-old Lady competitors travelling on their own with firearms, but without incident. The international IPSC community takes care of it's own and other Region's members.

[ErikW]

I want to go and I guess, shoot Standard with an STI. What U.S.-available magazine tubes work out to fit in the box? 126mm? (with "international" pads?)

I'm not shooting for anybody but myself and I'm not wrapping myself in anybody's flag.

Vince, thanks for the slot info, I'll be bugging Mr. Voigt when the time comes.

[Jake Di Vita]

Vince,

Thanks for the insight...I'll definetely see what I can swing to get down there.

[Vince Pinto]

Erik,

Yes, I think magazines which fit the IPSC box are 126mm, but I'll check with Uncle Dave of STI and revert.

Jake,

Attaboy. If you can get a slot, it's an experience you'll never forget. I spent 2 weeks at each of the last two World Shoots and I didn't get to fire a single round at either match, but I still had a ball. As I've often said: "I came for the shooting, but I stayed because of the people".

And I don't know of a single American who's attended an international match who didn't have a ball. In fact, if you know Kurt Miller (a regular here), ask him about the reception he received in Italy earlier this year when he, as the sole American competitor, marched in behind the Stars 'n' Stripes (clue: standing ovation, I kid you not).

Hell, I'm Australian and I had a tear in my eye when I saw what happened.

[JMD]

Shoot Eric!

I've been trying for three years. We had 16 at the Tropical Cup last year in Costa Rica and that is the high water mark.

You will be shooting with a great guy from the embassy in Bolivia – say hey for me! Juan Diaz is also one of the best production shooters in the world. (IPSC production – 5lb. Trigger, minor and factory everything)

OPEN SHOOTERS: DO NOT BRING 115 gr. Bullets. You will need 120+ gr. to make major.

Actually, the international IPSC community is more curious as to why we don’t travel than ascribing a reason. It is a generalization but most shooters like people from the states. I have over 10 matches (I think) in the last 3 years in Latin America, South America and Asia and the biggest question I’m asked is why don’t we travel. I can only tell them that we don’t travel and support our local/regional/national matches either.

If you search the Enos forum you will find I’ve commented on Ecuador and Thailand. Phil S. and others have spoken about Guatemala. If the USPSA member’s guest book is archived somewhere you will find discussion from the time of the selection of Ecuador for the WS.

There is a level 3 in Puerto Rico January 17 and the Columbus Cup, a “Super Level 3” will be held in Managua, Nicaragua April 22. Info at http://www.ipsc.org/calendar.php

Travel with firearms is not a major issue. Just make sure you have your permit in hand. “Foreign” customs exercise the same care and caution that we do to “foreign visitors”. Biggest problem worldwide is ammo. You can take 300 rounds of 180gr. .40 (5 kg. /11lbs).

PRODUCTION In IPSC production you are scored minor. There is no magazine capacity restriction and no +2 base pads. No fiber optic front sights or after market barrels. If the factory offers the rear sight you may install it. I would suggest you read the latest rulebook and check the list of approved guns.

STANDARD The deal here is that there is some semblance to the ability to carry. No 140 mm mags. Either flat pads or the Dawson international (As product placement Dave, send me a few!). Mags and holster behind hip bone. Your gun will need to fit inside the box with every mag you intend to use.

Targets and course design You will find the Classic a more difficult target, it offers less area and a smaller A zone. You will also find 6” plates and more “technical” courses. There is running and gunning but accuracy is a factor. You might find yourself backing up, going prone, kneeling and then getting back up to complete the course. Sloppy gun handling will bring an end to your holiday. You will also notice a difference in the respect paid to IROA staff. Where some consider the RO the “timer” in the states you will find the C/RO take their responsibility seriously. Everyone is there to do their best and have fun but it is by the rules.

Great idea Eric! Keep chatting it up because it is a tremendous opportunity to shoot with perhaps 8-900 shooters from around the globe!

*It is late and I’ll ask Vince to comment. I’m certain to have missed things but my day is done!

**While typing this Vince was on it! Well done.

[SmittyFL]

Nobody asked you to wrap yourself in a flag Erik.

[Jake Di Vita]

Awesome stuff Vince. That would be pretty wild.

[Detlef]

Production shooters:

....

No, this is not that easy! Many many PD gun modifications that are permitted under USPSA are not allowed under IPSC rules. You sure don't want to go to such a major match without having your gun checked for PD compliance!

--Detlef

[spook]

Just a small addition/correction:

In Open, you can use less than 120 grain bullets for minor. The 120 grain rule applies to major only.

[Jack Suber]

I'll be going. My Mom is from Guayaquil. I grew up spending my Summers there. The first time I ever shot IPSC was in Ecuador during a visit (1984). I shot the 2002 Ecuador Open but could not make it for the PanAm (kids in school, etc). I shot standard and had a great time. Took two friends with me. We went for 10 days. We shot the match (3 days), then went fishing for a few days, and then went dove hunting. Ecuador is a beautiful country and there is a lot of cool stuff to do. If you go, allow yourself some extra time to go to Quito and see the highlands. Its a shame to go there and not see the country. They are on the U.S. dollar and a dollar goes a LONG way. Take care.

Jack

[james h]

I will concur that us "foreign" shooters are curious as to why so few Americans travel to shoot. I realise that it A a long way and B theres lots to shoot at home!

having said that those few Yanks i have met on the range show all that is best about the US.from Sam at WSx11 to others who know who they are and will butt in if nescessary!. as for the differences betwwen ipsc and uspsa thats not insurmountable . Hi cap mags are normally sold on site in abundance for most models and at good prices so no great loss if you cant get them home

if i make it out there it would be nice(i hope) to see the faces to go with the names, ugly people please wear bags!

james

[B.J. Norris]

What's the match fee for WS?

[shred]

I want to go. We've got a couple shooters around here that like to do the international thing, so I may hang with them. I'll be pestering USPSA next year.

[Flexmoney]

OK...I split out the 3 pages worth of post that directly address IPSC Standard Magazines...legal & max capacity.

They are in this thread:

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=10021

[Vince Pinto]

This part of my post was inadvertently moved with the magazine thread, so I'm bring it back where it belongs 'coz it was feeling sad and lonely .....

B.J.,

The match fee is usually around US$400 but you get excellent 35 stages, the world's best Range Officers and the world's finest Arbitration Committee

[dirtypool40]

no, nobody asked me to wrap my self in the flag, I am just saying get out there, and show some pride and participate. No, I am not some Gold team USA guy, but I would like to go as a US shooter representing the USPSA, even if it's on my own nickel. I hope wanting to be patriotic at a match doesn't hurt anybody's feelings, I am not trying to act like am a big "sombody".

[SmittyFL]

I agree with you dirty. And don't "hope" you're not hurting anyone's feelings. If they have a problem with our patriotism phukem! I think it is a great idea. I can't afford the time and money this year or I would be right there with you.

[JMD]

Guys,

It is not a question of jingoism or arrogance. MOST “foreign" (not USA shooters) enjoy our presence and general good humor. We, as a rule are willing to help with the planning of a stage and critique. You will find that from the #!1 shooter on down.

There are manufacturers, distributors and factory reps representing the USA making us proud. Frankly the lack of participation of shooters is embarrassing. I have no interest in discussing “whys and why nots”. If you can afford the fee and Michael feels you are a responsible representative for the US/USPAS – GO!

I expect I have become old hat and you have hear all you wish from me... If you have specific questions write me – if you wish to yammer, have at it!

Hope to see you in Central, South American and the pan Asia next year!

Ciao,

Joel