38 Super 627

[Chillywig]

I've been shooting a 625 performance center gun and absolutely love it. The guys that shoot open looked like they were having too much fun and I decided to give it a try. I picked up this 627-4 new late last year. I've only shot it a few times and loaded up a hundred rounds this morning looking for a good ICORE round. I used a zero 125fmj 4.9gr universal clays and a fed sp primer. Power factor 130. It was a little hotter than I am looking for but the brass would not eject without wacking the ejection rod against the shooting table. Just wondering if anyone else has gone through this? I'm thinking about a lower PF but also wondering if one type of brass ejects easier or if honing or polishing the chambers is the route I need to go???

[ChrisC]

i had my gun worked over by carmoney and haven't had any issue with ejecting the spent cartridges. he hawgs out the holes a little more than the Performance center does....

[Richard Koester]

Your load is similar to mine. I use an Oregon Trail 115, the same powder and charge. with a 1.260 OAL. I had the same sticky ejection problem,(Leave it alone Cliff) until I switched to brass Winchester 38 super + P, and Herthco clips. You may be at the low limit for Universal Clays. When I try to fudge the load down, I get unburned powder in the cylinder. Richard

[sargenv]

Really? Winchester Supers? They seem like they don't want to fit the Hearthco moons.. are they just tight or do you need a different thickness moon? The Starline and RP brass seem to feel loose but not that bad. Maybe I will try them again. I have an ample supply of Winchester supers..

[Toolguy]

Try cleaning out the chambers real good with a stainless chamber brush. The previous owner probably never cleaned it.

[Chillywig]

I would guess that I've only put about 200 rounds through the gun and did buy it new. The first time I shot it I used my major PF loads I use for USPSA, 125 zero hp behing 10gr of hs-7 and a fed sp primer. I did notice that the nickle plated ammo came out a little easier than the brass but just barely. With major PF ammo I nearly thought the moons were going to be stuck forever.

[jjanglin]

I have a 627-4 I got last year, at first the rounds where sticky in the cylinder, I took a new 38 super

finish reamer and cleaned them out then I polished the the holes with felt bobs mounted on

mandrels that you can change the bobs out on, I used a pencil die grinder that spins about 50,000

rpms and used jewelers rouge to finsh them out.

My Loads are

153.8 RN lead bullets made for me by a customer that uses a lot of linotype in them.

5.0 longshot avg velocity 956.0 P.F. 146.2

3.8 n 320 avg velocity 936.0 P.F 143.2

125.6 RN lead made the same as above

6.8 3n38 avg velocity 1050 P.F. 131.9

I dont think the gun is all that accurate so far, at 25 yards shoots in a circle about 5 inches , maybe its me?? these same loads in a 5 inch 1911 are right on top of each other.

In a 686 L frame that Ive set up to shoot 38 super with a shilen barrel the groups are much

tighter 3 inch circle some right next to each other.

Jim/Pa

Sailors

[sargenv]

The 627 needs a bullet at .357", for some reason they are not the nominal .356" like most supers are chambered for. I've been using bear creek .358" bullets swaged down to .357" and they are very accurate. Bullet fit is what decides how accurate these guns can be especially with such a hard bullets, if it is undersized, it will not fly true.

I did check the 38 super Winnies and they do fit with some effort. Cool!

[Chillywig]

The grouping has always been all over the place with this gun It shoots a group at ten yards that was one big hole and then I had a group at the same distance with the same ammo that was a couple inches. I keep going back to the 625 I have and it is a great reliable repeatable gun. Compared to my old 625 this 627 sometimes feels like if my 625 is a true PC gun then this 627 must be made by tarus. Its like they are not even close to the same type of workmanship.

[ede]

Andy if you want to see or feel what Mike Carmoney can do to a wheelie I'll let you try one o mine out, might be a while before I get back north, but sometime you can try it.

[EEH]

I had one of the first issue guns and loaded it with zero's jhp .356 win 231 powder or hp 38 powder,I had two brands of moon clips they all dropped out clean,I always shot 125 gr bullets,I shot some winchester silvertip HP,they were pretty hot,I never tried to make major with heavy bullets,,but I loved that gun ,, I always wonder why I sold it ???

[Tom E]

Has anyone checked the size of the cylinder throats? If they're smaller than the barrel you're not going to get good accuracy.

[pcmunson]

I have a 627 in .38 Super that was reworked by Mike Carmoney. He does great work. Accuracy testing using 3 different bullets and two different powder loads showed that they are all adequate for IPSC matches. My gun seems to be very forgiving. I have no problems dumping empty cases.

[Chillywig]

Andy if you want to see or feel what Mike Carmoney can do to a wheelie I'll let you try one o mine out, might be a while before I get back north, but sometime you can try it.

Mr Ellison you may have been right about the best tool for working on a gun is a checkbook. After doing the trigger bobbing the hammer and adjusting the main spring the action is better than the 625 but I know it isn't as good as if I had someone who knows what they are doing work on it. I still like to learn the hard way and probably wont quit till I break something.

I just thought of something, I do put a heavy crimp on the super loads. Maybe that is what makes the brass swell so much. I'll probably polish the chambers for good measure, adjust the crimp and reduce the powder charge by .1gr.

This afternoon I worked the PCGC booth at the WV hunt and fish show with your old buddy DANAMITE. He just bought a STI Edge and is going to get a revolver also. This year PCGC is going to have an ICORE division thanks to Tim. We are going to have matches on Ashland's off months, so we will have an ICORE match monthly between the two clubs.

[oneton]

I had the same problem with my 627. someone showed me the under sizer die from http://egw-guns.com/store/

not had that problem any more

Jeremy Hardin

[Chillywig]

I had the same problem with my 627. someone showed me the under sizer die from http://egw-guns.com/store/

not had that problem any more

Jeremy Hardin

That may be something else I need to try. I'm using The Dillon pistol dies and out of the hundred I loaded 18 rounds failed to drop into the case check gauge. I'm using the Smith moons that came with the gun and if a round fails the case check the moon has to be forced into the gun.

[ede]

Andy, i sure hate being stuck in Alabama and missing all the shooting at PCGC. i want to get started on shooting steel there but can't make it happen from here. i talked to gene and we might do a benifit match sunday before Memorial day if i can get the time off to go home. i'll shoot the August match since i'll be home for a couple GSSF matches. i'm sure i'll have a revolver with me and if you want can give it a try.

Edited January 26, 2010 by ede

[Chillywig]

I'm really looking forward to the 2010 shooting season which is fast upon us. I'm hoping to get the open gun ready for ICORE although Tim thinks I also need and new snubbie gun to shoot bug.

Hope to see you at some shoots. With the range expansions we finished last year I think there will be room for all your and DANAMITE's spectators.

Edited January 27, 2010 by Chillywig

[Middle Man]

The 627 needs a bullet at .357", for some reason they are not the nominal .356" like most supers are chambered for. I've been using bear creek .358" bullets swaged down to .357" and they are very accurate. Bullet fit is what decides how accurate these guns can be especially with such a hard bullets, if it is undersized, it will not fly true.

I did check the 38 super Winnies and they do fit with some effort. Cool!

Yep, S&W chose to use larger, that is .357", than SAAMI spec (which for 38 Super is nominally .356") for the barrel diameter on the various production runs they have built. That's why guys that have tried 9mm ball in the 627's have had such horrible accuracy and the .356" Super bullets are only marginally accurate.

[AultGM]

Really? Winchester Supers? They seem like they don't want to fit the Hearthco moons.. are they just tight or do you need a different thickness moon? The Starline and RP brass seem to feel loose but not that bad. Maybe I will try them again. I have an ample supply of Winchester supers..

I, too, have plenty of once-fired Winchester .38 Super Brass and they are too tight in the Hearthco Clips and

will not seat all the way into the Cylinders of any of my (3) 627 Supers.

No problems at all with RP or Starline in any of these guns.

[jjanglin]

Ya all that are satisfied ( so to speak) with your 627 super what is your thoughts(idea)

of acceptable accuracy?

What load gives you acceptable accuracy?

Jim/Pa

Sailors

[DougCarden]

Guys, take this for what it is worth.

I had one of the first run guns, and played with loads for it. It shot best with .357 and .358 lead bullets with a long bearing surface. I think the last poofer load for steel I ran was a oversized 147LFP .357 with around 3grains of titegroup for steel. I expect my loads to put the bullets in the same hole or close to the same hole for all 8 shots......

It has a .357 barrel, most likely because the people ordering them for the batch order DID NOT specify they wanted a .355 or .356 barrel, and S&W only had .357 blanks on hand.......(not a dig, just a WAG since this has happened twice....)

For best accuracy with minor type loads you will need to try .357-.358 sized bullets, which limits you. I would recommend at least 130grain bullets and up, due to more bullet (bearing surface) being able to engage the rifling.

When I had a custom gun done, It was with a .355 barrel so I could use .355 bulk 9mm bullets, and get super good accuracy with .356 bullets.....you get the idea.

Your best accuracy will be with a medium burning powder like VV320, Solo 1000, W 231, and Titegroup...not necessarily in that order.

I would recommend Billy bullets for his wonderful feeding ogive on the 160 and 170RN bullets...sized .358 and also Twoalphabullets.com has a 160gr LRN that is sized .358 as well.....I have them on the shelf and they are perfect steel bullets in revo and 9mm, but that is for another day....LOL

Good luck,

DougC

[Bill40718]

+1 on Doug's comment.

FWIW - I'm old, with old eyes, but I can get 1 to 1 1/2 inch groups, from a rest, at 25 yards with my .38 Super.

I am loading Billy Bullets, 160 gr. sized .357, over 3.3 gr Solo 1000 with an OAL of about 1.295. Power factor right at 130.

ANY bullet sized under .357, including jacketed types, group like a shotgun from my revolver.

[sargenv]

My current load is:

158 gr Bear creek RN's sized down from .358" to .357" through a lee swager.

Mixed brass (RP, Starline, or Win)

RP or Win SP primer

3.2 gr of IMR 700x.

I have not chrono'd them but I shot them in a match and they had no issues knocking down full sized poppers that were set correctly. They load nice and slick into the cylinder.

When I have the time (and weather) I will chrono them and post that info here. If I were shooting them for the IRC, I'd likely load them with Fed SP primers just to be sure. My 627 has little work to it and a standard spring for the hammer, so it ignites everything just fine for now.

When I run out of the Bear creeks I'll likely switch over to a Lee 158 RN-2R boolits sized to .357".

[Chillywig]

Well I finally made it back to the range despise the snow trying to keep me inside. All I ended up change was the crimp on the bullet and that seemed to do the trick. I had pulled one of the old bullets from the way I had the die set and it left a deep crimp ring in the bullet. I've used this setting for several years now with my STI and never had any problems.

As far a accuracy it may be the shooter. Usually I'll have a good group going and throw one or two out of 8 wide. I measured some of the zero 125 fmj's and they are .3565 on my calipers.