Internal Lock on S&W

[ScottNH]

Most IDPA shooters never read the Rule Book... they learn it 3 seconds at a time.

Now that line is a keeper. Almost sig line material.

[Glock3422]

Direct from - "Unofficial repository for rule clarifications folks have received from HQ"

http://idpaforum.yuku.com/topic/5824

Answer:

After perusing the Smith & Wesson website, I find that the lock literature

is under the Safety subheading. After Talking with XX, I still feel that

the integral lock is still considered a Safety Device. As such, the lock can

not be disabled.

Thank you,

Robert Ray

International Defensive Pistol Association

This does not bode well for the long awaited and "highly anticipated" rule book revision.

[Bill Nesbitt]

I just put the flag back in my 686.

Exactly where would I put some blue locktite to keep the flag from activating? Just putting it in the key hole won't work.

[Bill Nesbitt]

Of course, that would also be disabling a safety device. I was just curious.

[SauconValley Shooter]

Of course, that would also be disabling a safety device. I was just curious.

Hello Bill,

Was it difficult to replace the flag? I assume that you insert the straight end of the spring into a hole and then wiggle the pivot into the frame.

Ken

[Ted Murphy]

Ken,

The lock is pretty easy to re-install, you just have to get the pieces lined up right. I got pretty good at it cause every time I sent back my 625 they put a new piece in it, and every time it returned I stoned off the locking tab and re-installed it. So in my case I'll be looking for new pieces. Hardest part is remembering how they all fit together.

I wonder if the judicious application of the purple loctite to the lock's sides would be enough that with the key and some force it would still function- but that it would help restrict the motion under recoil.

Other options might entail adding a stronger spring and drilling the detent deeper.

Ted

[Duane Thomas]

Of course, that would also be disabling a safety device.

Not really. Blue Loctite is the stuff we use on grip screws because it's medium strength, non-permanent. IOW a key lock that's been blue Loctited would still be operational, therefore not disabled, it would just take more pressure to turn the lock.

[Bill Nesbitt]

Like Ted said, not too hard to put back in. The flag has a teeny, tiny mousetrap spring that fits in a teeny, tiny slot behind the cylinder bolt. I just put the flag's pin in it's hole and used a tiny scribe to move the spring into the slot. Lots of teeny, tiny parts.

I will use a S&W with a lock in IDPA because the rules say I must. However I would never use one for a serious self defense weapon.

I'm still waiting for someone to tell me exactly where the locktite goes. My experience with blue locktite is that heat is sometimes needed to remove the part.

[freeidaho]

I'm still waiting for someone to tell me exactly where the locktite goes. My experience with blue locktite is that heat is sometimes needed to remove the part.

Bill,

The locktite arguement never made sense to me anyway. If it disables the lock, it disables the lock. The method doesn't matter much.

kr

[Duane Thomas]

It doesn't disable the lock. The lock is still perfectly functional.

[freeidaho]

It doesn't disable the lock. The lock is still perfectly functional.

Duane,

You have done this, or used a lock with the technique applied. Cuz on a bolt, blue loctite will change a nut from being able to move with the fingers to needing 15 or so foot pounds of force. Just askin.....

kr

[SauconValley Shooter]

Good Evening,

I put the flag back in my 686 this evening. It actually went in quicker then they come out.

Ted, I only take the flag piece off as it is only held in with a spring. I leave the other parts so that I do not have an open hole in the side of the gun.

I am now in the market for an older 686. For ESR, my 646 does not have the lock. I have a 586 that I would use, but I have been putting the X frame grips on all of my guns, and the square butt will be a problem.

Ken

Edited February 4, 2010 by SauconValley Shooter

[michaels]

Better bring your cable lock that you got in the box when you bought your bottom feeder, that would only be fair.

michaels

[Glock3422]

Henceforth, I think this should be referred to as the "Ken" rule.

Since he asked the question "officially", he should be recognized for his efforts.

I forgot-

The timing of this should make the Indoor Nationals MUCH more interesting.

Edited February 4, 2010 by Glock3422

[nashvillebill]

Do I need to re-classify with the hammer block re-installed? Should I give back the plaques I've won since I removed it? My conscience hurts. I feel so cheap.

[Bones]

I'm still waiting for someone to tell me exactly where the locktite goes. My experience with blue locktite is that heat is sometimes needed to remove the part.

Right - so you'll need both your torch and the key for the equipment check. Good luck with that.

Craig

[SauconValley Shooter]

Henceforth, I think this should be referred to as the "Ken" rule.

Since he asked the question "officially", he should be recognized for his efforts.

I forgot-

The timing of this should make the Indoor Nationals MUCH more interesting.

Good Morning,

Now before you bestow this honor on me, you should check Brian's post in this thread, on January 31.

Ken

[Brian Gonsalves]

Here's my question on the Locktite solution. So you use locktite to prevent the lock from jamming up the gun during the match. At registration and gun inspection before the match the MD tests the lock (after borrowing your portable torch) breaking the locktite loose. Then you shoot the match, wondering if the lock, now free from the bounds of the locktite is going to jam up your gun. There must be a better solution!?!?!?

[DWFAN]

Here's my question on the Locktite solution. So you use locktite to prevent the lock from jamming up the gun during the match. At registration and gun inspection before the match the MD tests the lock (after borrowing your portable torch) breaking the locktite loose. Then you shoot the match, wondering if the lock, now free from the bounds of the locktite is going to jam up your gun. There must be a better solution!?!?!?

Dont shoot revolver, or shoot one without a lock ?

[Bill Nesbitt]

I'm still waiting for someone to tell me exactly where the locktite goes. My experience with blue locktite is that heat is sometimes needed to remove the part.

Right - so you'll need both your torch and the key for the equipment check. Good luck with that.

Craig

Just to make things clear, I'm not going to put LockTite in the storage lock of any of my guns.

I'm just wondering where exactly the LockTite is to be placed by the folks who suggested it???? Anybody??? There are several movable parts that could be considered. And for the folks who suggest the LockTite; have you tryed it on your own gun and what were the results?

[Steve Koski]

The upside is that if you use the loctite liberally, the cylinder gap will be reduced and your factory Econo-Ball may make power factor.

[Carmoney]

Let's keep this in perspective, now.

Keeping the IL system intact will limit you to a hammer that has all the correct geometry for the IL to function. Some types of radically cut-away hammers (including the Carmonized hammer) are not compatible with the IL.

Otherwise, actual documented malfunctions of the S&W IL system are extraordinarily rare. In the context of competition shooting (which is the focus here on BE), it's certainly not worth worrying about.

So as long as you have an appropriate hammer installed in your gun, put the IL flags back in there, forget the whole loctite nonsense, and just go shoot!!

[Glock3422]

The problem now for revolver shooters is that the question was asked through the "unofficial" source. That question asked here was ill advised and only gathered really unofficial speculation. It is kind of like the tree falling in the woods if there is no one to hear it.

Now, when someone actually calls the official source, that is a different matter. You had better be prepared for the question to be taken seriously.

Lesson - Be careful what you ask for.

There are a number of questions that should not be asked. It looks like that was one of them.

[CDPMatt]

My 625 has never locked up and I threw away the key....

[SauconValley Shooter]

Good Afternoon,

The question had been asked.

When I contacted Robert Ray, I copied for him a section of the S&W website that warned not to lock or unlock a loaded gun. Robert's response was that the text was on the "Safety" web page and therefore the device is a safety. I then copied text from the owners manual that, in capital, red, letters also expressly warns against locking or unlocking a loaded gun. The manual refers to the device several times , but always as a lock. It seemed quite clear to me that the device has nothing to do with firing or carrying the gun, and that is it for storage of an empty gun. Robert replied that the lock is for the "safe" storage of the gun and therefore the IDPA rule still applied.

I tried.

Even though I agree with Carmoney that the chances of the lock activating are slim, this morning I was thinking of shooting my 66 at S&W instead of my 686.