MattBurkett Posted May 4, 2002 Share Posted May 4, 2002 So I was out at the range doing a class yesterday and found that I was a lot slower on a retention reload than I thought I was. Hmm. For those that don't shoot IDPA, a retention reload is where you take the mag out of the gun and put it in a pocket or someplace, then put a new mag into the gun. A tac load is where you take a new mag and swap it with the old mag at the gun, then put the old mag into the pocket and go back to your grip and start shooting. At most IDPA matches, you are allowed to perform either one during a stage. A retention reload is about a minimum of a 1/2 second faster everytime than a tactical load. I was having some fun with a drill. Target at 7 yards Draw - shot retention load - shot retention load - shot 4.00 par time with all 0's. Believe me that is moving. It was almost impossible for me to hit at the start. My reloads were around 3.00 each when I wasn't getting moving! In about 10 minutes of constant practice playing beat the clock, I got it down to a 1.0 draw, and 1.5 tac loads. You will definetly want to modify your pockets for that magazine after you have done this. Remember this is from concealment too! Anyone have any other ideas on how to speed this up? From gear, clothing, etc? What do you guys think is the best place to put the mag? Have fun out there. :-) (Edited by MattBurkett at 6:28 pm on May 3, 2002) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singlestack Posted May 4, 2002 Share Posted May 4, 2002 "What do you guys think is the best place to put the mag?" JoeD has a real cool pair of gamer boots that have VERY wide tops..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted May 4, 2002 Share Posted May 4, 2002 Matt, I actually wrote an article on this topic. It hasn't been published yet. Short form, I've always found the best place to put the spare mag was in the waistband. It's a much larger "pocket" to shoot for. Just shove the old magazine into your belly, push straight down, then it's back up to the gun. Obviously this is only going to work for guys with fairly flat bellies. For guys with bellies hanging over their belts this is not the technique of choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattBurkett Posted May 5, 2002 Author Share Posted May 5, 2002 Duane, I wear the convertable pants from Columbia River. They have a killer slash pocket in the front and rear. For the RWR's and TL's from the kneeling position, putting the mag into the back pocket seems a lot easier. Of course here is an embarrassing thing that happened to me the other. I tried putting the mag into belly area, slipped and ended up popping my left one. Understand? If not, think about it for a bit minute. Sucked big time. In other words, I doubt I will be putting the mag into the waist band ever. Hence, I am looking for options. Take care, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Di Vita Posted May 5, 2002 Share Posted May 5, 2002 I have a baggy pair of pants that I usually wear when I shoot. In these pants, the pockets of them tend to stay open enough to fit things easily into. Whenever I do a retention reload, I usually just throw it into my pocket, which works good because the mag pouch is enarly right above it. Calls for less wasted movement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Kline Posted May 6, 2002 Share Posted May 6, 2002 Hey Matt, it's Kevin. Depending on the type of vest/or concealment you wear, if you have one of the photographers vests, the pockets on the sides are pretty big and easy to get to. I usually throw it in my weak side pocket on the vest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattBurkett Posted May 6, 2002 Author Share Posted May 6, 2002 Kevin, cool idea, but it seems that it adds one more movement. If it had a big pocket on the inside, now that might be interesting. Hey, the videos are finished and cruising over to duplication! :-) Woo, hoo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted May 6, 2002 Share Posted May 6, 2002 I've heard of people dropping the mag into a large shirt pocket, but that might be an IDPA no-no by now. Done right , you might not even need to handle the old mag.. (Edited by shred at 2:50 pm on May 6, 2002) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted May 7, 2002 Share Posted May 7, 2002 "I tried putting the mag into belly area, slipped and ended up popping my left one. Understand? If not, think about it for a bit minute. Sucked big time." Actually I realized what you meant instantly. Ouch! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattBurkett Posted May 7, 2002 Author Share Posted May 7, 2002 Yeah, it took a few minutes to get back up to speed. Not recommended as a self inflicted injury thats for sure. :-( hehe Take care and be careful! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delmont Posted May 7, 2002 Share Posted May 7, 2002 Shove the mag in your belt. Don't try too hard to get it in there, or you're just wasting time. As long as the scenario doesn't call for that mag to be reused, it's OK if it falls out during any movement that follows the reload. Very few scenarios will need it again, especially with the 18 round limit. It almost never falls out of my belt, but if it does, I've made an effort to secure it after the reload, so I shouldn't be penalized. The "tactical gods" would hate me for typing this...much less thinking it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted May 8, 2002 Share Posted May 8, 2002 Matt, When I was in the Army I went through RECONDO school which has a fair amount of hand-to-hand training in it. One of the other guys in my unit who also attended that school was named Wesley Fowler. One of the things they taught him in RECONDO school was "If you ever get kicked in the balls it'll take about 30 seconds before the pain really gets too bad to function. So that gives you 30 seconds to kick the guy's ass." Fast forward about a year. Wesley's down at a drive-in movie and decides to go for some popcorn. As he's winding his way between the cars he comes upon a guy beating the living crap out of his girlfriend, just really working her over. Well, Wesley, being basically a nice guy, steps forward and says, "Hey man, you don't want to do that," and the guy turns around and kicks him in the balls. Wesley told me later, "It didn't even really hurt at first. Everything went numb. I just kind of stood there, thinking, 'Ah-hah! I remember what they told me in RECONDO school. I have 30 seconds to kick this guy's ass.' And then he kicked me in the balls again. And all I could think was....'I wonder if this cuts down on my 30 seconds?'" Then of course Wesley, good Airborne paratrooper that he was, laid the guy out with one punch, walked REAL carefully over to a car, leaned against it and then the pain hit. When the cops showed up the other guy was still unconscious and Wesley was still propped up against the car, very carefully not moving even one little bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattBurkett Posted May 8, 2002 Author Share Posted May 8, 2002 DT, thats damn funny! hehehehohohehoehhe Notices its always funnier when someone else gets whacked in the nuts? Heck you can win an easy 10K on America's funniest home videos with a good nut shot! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nolan Posted May 8, 2002 Share Posted May 8, 2002 I don't know about that 30 second rule. Maybe for the really severe blows, but for those 'moderate' ones that I've experienced the pain was instantaneous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stalker Posted May 8, 2002 Share Posted May 8, 2002 oooooooooo!!!!!!! that must have hurt!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted May 10, 2002 Share Posted May 10, 2002 "Notices its always funnier when someone else gets whacked in the nuts?" Y'know, I have noticed that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Moneypenny Posted July 5, 2002 Share Posted July 5, 2002 i know your a better shooter than i and have spent a lot more time doing the motion studies, and what is faster. but in some cases its just faster to do a tactical reload, so you can stow on the move. i have pretty much quit doing a reload with retention as i am just slow on it. and i feel a LOT more solid about my tactical reloads that way. i usually use my waist band, i am a little fluffy, but not too big of a problem, for skinny guys who wear their pants low, this is NOT reccomended. I shoot in royal robbins if i am in a cramped position i will stow it in my back pocket. my front pockets usually kind of gap open enough to toss a beretta mag in though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattBurkett Posted July 5, 2002 Author Share Posted July 5, 2002 smoney, very interesting point. Have you timed the difference between two positions? If you get a chance I would really be curious of the results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Moneypenny Posted July 5, 2002 Share Posted July 5, 2002 well, my problems are a little different, as i am 6'3" and i have knees that on't allow me to bend as far as i would like... haven't timed them.. but it is a reason shoot :-) will post it when i get the chance to run them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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