Training

[Neomet]

Gotta go with the middle path here personally. When I am practicing I practice more than just accuracy. I practice transitions, shooting going into the box, shooting getting out of the box, shooting on the move, etc, etc. Live fire with these exercises dramatically cuts down your stage times, not just improve your points. Otherwise we would all be best served by practicing footwork and speed drills to improve our stage times. (Still, obviously things to train on.)

On the other hand I do get a diminishing return. I'll routinely shoot 200 to 300 at a practice session. At that point, if I have been doing my work properly I will have derived quite a bit of benefit from the session. Would I get more if I shot 500 or 1,000, or 1,500? Probably, but this is a hobby and the cost involved in ammo and time aren't justifiable to me. If I was given free ammo (not a hint Bobby ) and wouldn't have to crawl around on my knees for an hour picking up all the brass afterwards I might consider shooting 1k a session. Maybe. As it is I shoot about 1,500 to 2,000 rounds a month.

YMMV

[LPatterson]

I didn't think that I had to state the obvious of needing to hit what you are shooting at during a stage run. That fact should be a given, but it isn’t to some I guess. My point was that the main difference between the lower and upper end USPSA/IPSC shooters THAT CAN HIT THE TARGETS THEY ARE SHOOTING AT is the time it takes to navigate the COF. A HUGE chunk of that time is efficiency or inefficiency in your movements through the COF.

This is my point exactly and those people you would like to shoot like are putting more rounds down range to be able to do it. I would be willing to bet that as those shooters were trying to reach that level that they timed everything they did and wrote it down. I guess if you shoot 1 shot in box A and run to box B for 1 shot it won't take many rounds.

It is great that you made Master in one year but I followed the link to your classifiers and there are just not that many good ones. Maybe you should look at the records of James Ong and Jake Di Vita before you start telling them about practice.

[CHA-LEE]

LPatterson> Once again you are failing to make direct comparisons. Sure if you look at my classifier results from the last year there are some ups and downs. Now go to ANY shooter and look at their first year of classifier results. Do they not have the same ups and downs? Comparing first year to first year makes sense, and is a fair comparison. Are you doing that? I would imagine no based on your response.

My comments in this thread were not to pitch my way of practice as being the best way to do things. Its nothing more than “Another” way to practice, take it or leave it. I was simply pointing out my experience on the subject. Everyone learns differently, that is a well known fact. So I figured that I would offer my vantage point about practice as it might help another shooter. What have YOU offered on the subject other than tearing down other peoples opinions? How about adding something productive to the discussion?

[flack jacket]

Back 20 yrs ago, I thought I had to be knee deep in brass at every practice session to get even a modicum of benefit of improved skills and such, hell one yr, I 'll admit it I burned 30,000 rds thru 1 gun in a single yr....now 20 yrs later, looking back at it, did I shoot those 30,000 rds 'intelligently'???? probably not, blastingto be blasting is onething, but now, we have access to lots of different materials that can and do help us in improving our individual skill levels, this forum for one!!!!!! we have DVD's and youtube etc....hell the internet....I have some magill tapes around here somewhere that have been re-wound waaay too many times trying to get every scrap of info out of em back in the day....you can do all this and not haveto spend a dime on range fee's and more importantly these days AMMO....

Calishootr -

I totally agree... I started as a kid almost 20 yrs ago , around 91 and picked up IPSC again this year. Shooting on Pop's dime was a big help I started with Steel challenge, it definitely needs alot of trigger time to shave off times. As for USPSA, IPSC, IDPA , economy of motion, as it has been shared many times, is where speed comes from, not the trigger finger.

I still have my "shooter ready?" and J. Michael Plaxco VHS tapes! Alot of our training was amongst fellow shooters not video's or professional shooters/instructors we have today.

My practice time is our weekly club matches at NRG. Ok , i'll burn about 200 rds but my shooting colleagues and I would take vids of each other and break down the video's and play them forward and in reverse to examine our footwork and engagement. As time permits, I'll visit the indoor range during the week and practice marksmanship, trigger control, shot calling, breathing.. etc. I try to ingrain those skills into my subconscious since I noticed those aspects are not at the top of my list as I'm at a IPSC club match. Then at home, practice draw's, dry fire and reloading. Then with an airsoft, I use the TV for practice for target acquisition. .... As mentioned, components cost alot more nowadays compared to 1992..

[ong45]

The only problem i have with threads like this is the condesceding attitude some have towards people who have the gall to shoot a lot

Yeah everyones a genius and how can you argue with such catch phrases as

" It's more important to make every round count "

" It's quality not quantity " yada yada yada

Stop and think for a second, think this is obvious only to you ???? Ever roll your eyes when teens think they invented something ?

Can't or won't afford to shoot as much as you'd like ? Have different priorities in your life ? Don't hate on the ones who are willing to sacrifice.

Keep wallowing in your "superior" training regimen while your competition gets better.

[Chills1994]

From my view point atop this B classed soap box, CHA-LEE's experience going from U to M in a year is no small feat.

It's nothing to sneeze at.

Can't we all just get along?

[Corey]

im going to have to invest in a .22 conversion kit if I want to come even close to that many rounds a week. The only indoor range in my area (that i know of at least) wont allow reloads to be shot, so its factory ammo or .22s for me til the weather breaks-that'll be around April IF im lucky....

[GunslingerDK]

I started shooting IPSC 1 year ago. I only have 6 matches (level 2) under my belt. Since I started IPSC I have shot an average of 500 rounds a week. Since January I have doubled that. I have become faster and more accurate. My follow-up shots have improved not to mention sight tracking and gun/recoil control. I cast my own bullets so cost isn't that much for me. 1000 rounds cost me around $45

Personally I think that I have reached a level, where time could be better spent dry-firing and practicing shooting on the move in the living room armed with a bottle half way filled with water. I just need to start doing it. God I love shooting 300-400 rounds each session for 3 sessions a week . I think what separates IPSC/USPSA with most other styles is that the targets must be engaged with 2 shots. That makes it an entirely different ball game!!! I often set up three targets at 8 yards and just draw engage all with 2 shots for 200 rounds. I do them in about 3 sec. all A's. Again, I think when your SHOOTING capabilities have reached a (for you) certain level, you have to look at other things as well.... otherwise you shooting faster isn't going to help all that much.

Something that have also contributed a great deal is this forum. From reading many many threads I've have learned which areas are important to work at and which drills are good for these areas. I have read many many thingsthat that I never would have come up with by myself. Great place indeed.

Edited April 15, 2011 by GunslingerDK

[waxman]

Very interested in this thread, I have been asking myself the same questions here alot lately. I do not have the answer. One thing I was thinking about though, CHA-LEE, you mention being classified as master so fast, wouldnt more shooting have helped that? since most classifiers are stand and shoot?I would think someone who burned through tons of ammo, would be mostly a paper M or GM, as oposed to someone who worked more on the movment parts of the game. Just a thought.I feel a sense of frustration on this subject, because From talking to other shooters, I shoot live fire quite a bit more then them, but some of them still beat me on match day. My brain says, It would be a worse beating if I didnt shoot so much, Is this right? Or am I wasting my money? The way I am trying to justify it is by taking shooting tests, classifiers and other drills, and checking improvment.

[PrinC]

I find this to be a very interesting thread. I like and understand Cha Lee's point but also understand the views expressed by the other shooters with a contrary opinion. I believe it boils down to the person behind the gun. Some learn quickly and can continue without much live fire to solidify the skill, while others can take a while getting it right. There will never be a one size fits all in shooting, so we just have to try and see what works for us.