FN SCAR16s

[ilvwhtgrls]

Thanks for the updates.

[joshua79109]

Now have 3050 rounds through the SCAR with zero failures.

I'm now convinced that the SCAR has less felt recoil and muzzle jump than my favorite mid-length AR. I run the Smith Vortex on the AR and the SCAR and each has the same length barrel (so it's not the break).

I find the SCAR to be very easy to break down and clean. I would not say it's any easier than an AR, but it certainly isn't any harder to break down and clean.

The SCAR is very quick from target to target and my timing is now faster with the SCAR. I don't believe I'm any quicker with reloads on the SCAR than the AR, but I am a little quicker clearing malfunctions. I've been testing using dummy rounds placed sporadically throughout my mags during practical shooting drills and runs and individually from a bench. I believe that the reciprocating charging handle is a good addition and I believe that once folks get use to it the reciprocating charging handle will be preferred by many.

I am at the point where I'm ready to say I prefer my SCAR to my favorite AR when it comes to actual use. I hope the SCAR will continue to perform for me and will hold up to the use - I currently have no reason to believe it will fail.

I'm considering a 3X Magnifier on a fts mount to accompany the Aimpoint. I've been running the SCAR with Aimpoint out to 300 yards easily, but I think I'd like to push it out a little further and try the 3X.

I've only used the Urban ERT on the SCAR so far and it has been good. I've switched the rear connection from the stock to the adapter quite a few times and I believe I prefer the stock connection so far.

The SCAR is my fourth FNH product. The first three are great performers so I hoped the SCAR would be too. So far it has not let me down. All four of my FNH products have been great, so either I'm lucky or they put out some good products.

[TonyG35]

Most of the last 500 were used running drills, but I ran the final 25 rounds at 300 yards for grouping (with good ammo).

My 5 group average (5 shots each) was 2.4".

I am kind of new to Rifle shooting with a scope but doesn't a 2moa dot cover 6 inches at 300 yards? Not doubting your results but

2.4" at 300 with that setup seems too good. Is this an expected group size and if not what would be a common group size at 300 yards

with a 4x 1-2 moa setup?

[joshua79109]

Most of the last 500 were used running drills, but I ran the final 25 rounds at 300 yards for grouping (with good ammo).

My 5 group average (5 shots each) was 2.4".

I am kind of new to Rifle shooting with a scope but doesn't a 2moa dot cover 6 inches at 300 yards? Not doubting your results but

2.4" at 300 with that setup seems too good. Is this an expected group size and if not what would be a common group size at 300 yards

with a 4x 1-2 moa setup?

When I was in the military we shot the our weapons to 500 yards with iron sights. Those sights cover a lot more of the target at 500 yards than they do at 100 yards.

There were a few different taught methods for this. I used one where the front sight was placed with the same amount of target remaining on the left and right for a center mass hit. With the regular sized front sight post - mine covered the target. With a modified front sight post I was good with the method I explained.

So.... I explain all of that to explain a few things I've learned using my Aimpoints.

- 1st thing is that the dot can be different sizes depending on the setting used for brightness

- 2nd thing is - when trying to see what I can get out of a firearm with a Aimpoint (grouping) I use targets with circles on them. I make the circles different sizes for use at different distances. This has allowed me to attempt to place the dot in the circle the best I can without using a true shooting vice of some sort (testing me, the Aimpoint, and the firearm). I use the dot to circle in the same way we used the front sight post to the target when I was in the military. I can try to take a photo through the Aimpoint the next time I try to group.

I have a 308 semi auto with a nice 10x scope and bipod on it - it serves a different purpose - when I group with it I use sandbags and I do get much better results with that set up. So I'm sure if I wanted to place a 10X (or other scope) on the SCAR and use sandbags I could get more out of it. I have not had an urge to try so far as it does not serve that purpose for me.

Just to be clear.... I'm not saying I think a person should set up with an Aimpoint for precision shots out past 300 yards. I'm just saying I enjoy attempting to get the most I can out of it. I do think the basic idea behind a good group with the Aimpoint is to put the dot in the same place every time (as far as the sight is concerned).

For example.... I see folks post all the time that with a dot you can only group the size of the dot as related to moa. So a 6" group at 300 yards with a 2 moa Aimpoint. In my opinion this is not the same theory as saying your Remington 700 can group at 1/2 moa. The dot size at 300 yards is just simply the dot size and as long as the dot is placed in the same place for each shot a person can get a decent group.

I'm not sure I've done a good job at explaining my theories here - if not ask me further or give your explanation of why or why not this makes sense.

[J-Ho]

Most of the last 500 were used running drills, but I ran the final 25 rounds at 300 yards for grouping (with good ammo).

My 5 group average (5 shots each) was 2.4".

I am kind of new to Rifle shooting with a scope but doesn't a 2moa dot cover 6 inches at 300 yards? Not doubting your results but

2.4" at 300 with that setup seems too good. Is this an expected group size and if not what would be a common group size at 300 yards

with a 4x 1-2 moa setup?

When I was in the military we shot the our weapons to 500 yards with iron sights. Those sights cover a lot more of the target at 500 yards than they do at 100 yards.

There were a few different taught methods for this. I used one where the front sight was placed with the same amount of target remaining on the left and right for a center mass hit. With the regular sized front sight post - mine covered the target. With a modified front sight post I was good with the method I explained.

So.... I explain all of that to explain a few things I've learned using my Aimpoints.

- 1st thing is that the dot can be different sizes depending on the setting used for brightness

- 2nd thing is - when trying to see what I can get out of a firearm with a Aimpoint (grouping) I use targets with circles on them. I make the circles different sizes for use at different distances. This has allowed me to attempt to place the dot in the circle the best I can without using a true shooting vice of some sort (testing me, the Aimpoint, and the firearm). I use the dot to circle in the same way we used the front sight post to the target when I was in the military. I can try to take a photo through the Aimpoint the next time I try to group.

I have a 308 semi auto with a nice 10x scope and bipod on it - it serves a different purpose - when I group with it I use sandbags and I do get much better results with that set up. So I'm sure if I wanted to place a 10X (or other scope) on the SCAR and use sandbags I could get more out of it. I have not had an urge to try so far as it does not serve that purpose for me.

Just to be clear.... I'm not saying I think a person should set up with an Aimpoint for precision shots out past 300 yards. I'm just saying I enjoy attempting to get the most I can out of it. I do think the basic idea behind a good group with the Aimpoint is to put the dot in the same place every time (as far as the sight is concerned).

For example.... I see folks post all the time that with a dot you can only group the size of the dot as related to moa. So a 6" group at 300 yards with a 2 moa Aimpoint. In my opinion this is not the same theory as saying your Remington 700 can group at 1/2 moa. The dot size at 300 yards is just simply the dot size and as long as the dot is placed in the same place for each shot a person can get a decent group.

I'm not sure I've done a good job at explaining my theories here - if not ask me further or give your explanation of why or why not this makes sense.

I see what you're saying Josh, but I think irons have the advantage over a dot at distance. The post may be wide but you at least have nice well defined lines to work with. Dots tend to get a little fuzzy around the edges. I'm giving to understand that this is a function of my astigmatism, so maybe it's just me.

[joshua79109]

I see what you're saying Josh, but I think irons have the advantage over a dot at distance. The post may be wide but you at least have nice well defined lines to work with. Dots tend to get a little fuzzy around the edges. I'm giving to understand that this is a function of my astigmatism, so maybe it's just me.

I got long with my reply, but I was just using the irons as an example to explain where my theory came from.

I absolutely agree that the irons are better than the dot at distances. Especially since my circles won't be drawn on everything I'll shoot at. I just use those to try to group, that's all. Really just trying to see what I could get out of it, not trying to be better than the irons or hp scope at distances.

I have astigmatism in both eyes too, and it really shows up inside with the dot. When I move outside the dot appears proper to me. Not sure why this is, but it works out. Inside I can still see it fine - it's just not as defined.

When I was shooting in the military I spent a lot of time around a fella that was one of the better long range shooters I've been around. He much preferred irons even to a scope. He always said a scope just shows you how much you're wiggling around - heartbeat, wind, lack of bone support or bad position, etc... He also said that the obvious other side of that is when your shooting past a distance you can see with your eyes, then you need a scope. I can still see regular sized targets (corrected with contacts) past the distance I'd personally use a 223 out to anyway (300 yards - I understand 3 gun can go out to longer distances and some like to use a 223 out longer than 300 yards), so I don't have any excuses for not staying with irons. For some reason I just really like the Aimpoint, especially up close. I've got a couple of stripped lowers and I've thought about putting together a 18" and really trying irons (I was good on irons and used them in real life) and a 1-4 optic like so many others use. I still have a hard time just letting go of the tactical side and letting it run more like a game - I was brainwashed well.

I'd like to get good with using the buis and the Aimpoint together. I've even considered using two different zeros. I use a 50 yard on the Aimpoint and I'd like to try a long distance zero on the buis. I'm afraid that would be too far from KISS for me and I might fail when under stress. I'm going to give it a try though.

Edited March 8, 2010 by joshua79109

[TonyG35]

Thanks for the explanation. It makes sense, I have read the same posts you have about dot size = group size so that's why I was curious.

I am also finding out the downside of optics vs. irons having to wait for my breathing to slow down after walking to the targets at 200 yds.

[joshua79109]

5640 rounds through the SCAR. Runs and runs. I have to load dummies to practice malfunction drills.

I polished the piston with Flitz for the first time a while back (thanks SgtStrykerUSMC43). The piston is even easier to clean now.

I added the 3X magnifier on a LaRue flip and I really like it. I still haven't pushed out past 300 yards with it for group though. I like irons, so the Aimpoint and magnifier add a lot of weight in my opinion. It seems like they add enough advantage to put up with the weight (for me). The SCAR is still balanced well even with all of the extra gear.

My SCAR is now officially a Coyote killing machine. It eats the light weight ammo just like it does the good heavy stuff.

I've never thought of myself as a fanboy about any certain company, but I believe I just might be a fanboy with FNH. I'm running 3 of my FN firearms hard and they run exceptionally well for me.

[joshua79109]

I recently realized another good reason for running the charging handle on the right side. I've been running the CH on the right side and like it there. I've even run the SCAR on a hood previously, but just realized this additional benefit. I had already considered that the CH could be in the way if resting the SCAR against something on the right side (easy to overcome be properly placing the firearm).

In the middle of a stage when I realized that when shooting from cover and the firearm is placed on the ground or something like the hood of a vehicle the CH is not in the way on the right side and would be on the left side. (same side as ejection port)

Here are some reasons I've decided I like the reciprocating CH.

I know that many folks prefer a non-reciprocating charging handle, but I believe some folks will like the reciprocating CH if they give it a good try.

I like the reciprocating charging handle - I run it on the right side allowing bolt release from both sides of the weapon, clear field of view, not against me when slung, and no issues with the Aimpoint/LaRue mount.

With the reciprocating CH -

- I find it to be simple to work malfunctions - when running drills

- I find it easier to spot a malfunction - when running drills due to the position of the CH

- simple design / no extra parts

- same design as my shotgun and 308 semi auto

I would like to see a few different aftermarket CHs. There is one available, but it is not one I'm interested in. I'd like to see one that is built like the Nordic CHs. I would also like to see some that change the angle and possibly drop the ch down a little lower if that's possible.

[Bryan 45]

I was very impressed w/ the SCAR I got to shoot. But, it had a Surefire can on it, so I wasn't able to give it a fair comparision against an AR. I liked the adjustment in the comb on the stock, as well as the complete lack of recoil. The trigger was not match grade, but plenty usable. If only it were not $2400. I know you get what you pay for, but I can't see that I can shoot it 2x as well as my ARs.

[joshua79109]

I was very impressed w/ the SCAR I got to shoot. But, it had a Surefire can on it, so I wasn't able to give it a fair comparision against an AR. I liked the adjustment in the comb on the stock, as well as the complete lack of recoil. The trigger was not match grade, but plenty usable. If only it were not $2400. I know you get what you pay for, but I can't see that I can shoot it 2x as well as my ARs.

I don't disagree.

I do believe a person has to want one to buy one due the price - and I could honestly build 1.5 - 2 nice ARs for the same price.

Knowing what I know now I'd buy the SCAR again.

[-JQ-]

Is there anyone working the triggers? I'm running the ARGold trigger and I'm not sure I could leave the AR for that reason. But I feel the dark side pulling strong with these. Someday.

[joshua79109]

Is there anyone working the triggers? I'm running the ARGold trigger and I'm not sure I could leave the AR for that reason. But I feel the dark side pulling strong with these. Someday.

Well I haven't heard of anything that would get you to the trigger you like on your AR, but here is a few links to look at.

This is a place that is doing a trigger job - http://www.hi-desertdog.com/index.php?_a=viewProd&productId=320&review=write

Here's a link from a good FN forum member about the outcome - http://fnforum.net/woo-hoo-trigger-job-t18105.html

Here's another link from a good FN forum mod with his fix and explanation - http://www.fnforum.net/fn-scar-16s-fire-control-group-pix-updated-08-05-09-t16633.html

I'm getting use to the trigger, but understand the desire for an upgrade.

[joshua79109]

Good news for us that like the SCAR

http://www.fnhusa.com/le/press/detail.asp?id=82

McLean, VA) —FNH USA, LLC received notification from the USSOCOM Program Executive Office—SOF Warrior (PEO—SW) that the SCAR Acquisition Decision Memorandum (ADM) was approved and signed on April 14, 2010, moving this FN Herstal (FN) program into the Milestone C phase. This decision authorizes the production and deployment of the Special Operations Forces (SOF) Combat Assault Rifle (SCAR) MK 16 and MK 17, as well as the Enhanced Grenade Launcher Module (EGLM) MK 13.

Following a worldwide solicitation to the military firearms industry, nine vendors submitted a dozen different designs for a new modular, multi-caliber weapons system. The FN SCAR submission was the only weapons system to pass all of the Go/No-Go criteria and was unanimously chosen in November 2004 by the selection board composed of senior operators from every SOF component. The SCAR is the first new assault rifle procured by the U.S. Military through a full and open competition since the M16 trials were held in the mid-1960s. Tests in reliability, accuracy, safety and ergonomics were administered from August 2005 to September 2008 and were conducted in a variety of environments including urban, maritime, jungle and winter/mountain operational test scenarios. The SCAR weapons system successfully endured more than two million rounds of ammunition during these trials, therein making it one of the most heavily tested weapons in the history of small arms.

“The SCAR is one of the most tested small arms in our military’s history and is currently being employed in the fight to defend freedom,” said United States Senator Lindsey Graham (R-SC), member of the Senate Armed Services Committee. “Products of excellence, like the SCAR, represent the continuation of a long and proud tradition of defense manufacturing in South Carolina. I look forward to the continued use of this weapons system.”

The FN SCAR system consists of two highly adaptable modular rifle platforms and a grenade launcher. Type-designated as the MK 16 MOD 0 5.56mm Special Operations Forces Combat Assault Rifle and the MK 17 MOD 0 7.62mm Special Operations Forces Combat Assault Rifle, both weapons are available with three different barrel lengths optimized for conducting operations in close-quarters combat, standard infantry and longer-range precision fire roles. All SCAR barrels can be easily interchanged by the operator in just minutes to instantly meet the requirements of virtually any mission. The MK 13 MOD 0 40mm Enhanced Grenade Launcher Module (EGLM) quickly mounts under the barrel of either SCAR platform, providing additional capability to the individual warfighter’s firepower, and can be easily configured for use as a stand-alone weapon as well. Because of the SCAR system’s modular design, ergonomic commonality (100%) and parts commonality (greater than 80%), it represents a significant reduction in training costs and life-cycle support. The weapon system’s open architecture is designed to support future advancements in operational requirements including ammunition, aiming devices, sighting systems and other mission critical equipment.

“The SCAR weapons system is a major USSOCOM program whose success is a direct result of the effort, commitment and teamwork provided by FN and the U.S. Government. We are extremely pleased to have had the opportunity to work with such a strong team in achieving the Milestone C decision,” said Mark Cherpes, Vice President of Military Operations for FNH USA. “This milestone signifies that our products are operationally effective and suitable for mass fielding. We believe that the SCAR is the most flexible, reliable and cost-effective small arms weapons system ever offered to America’s servicemen and women, and that it will give them a significant operational advantage in both present and future conflicts.”

FN firearms manufactured in the United States are produced by FN Manufacturing in Columbia, SC. The Herstal Group is represented by FNH USA, FN Manufacturing and Browning within the United States and directly employs more than 1,000 individuals. U.S. operations are located in Virginia, South Carolina, Utah and Missouri. FNH USA is the sales and marketing arm of FN. Its corporate mission is to expand the company’s global leadership position in defense, law enforcement and commercial markets by delivering superior products and the finest in training and logistical support. For more information, or to view the entire line of FN products, visit www.fnhusa.com. FNH USA, LLC, P.O. Box 697, McLean, VA 22101 USA.

[joshua79109]

SCAR16s and Pmags - 2 issues

This is just meant to be helpful for folks like me who had a truck load of pmags prior to getting a SCAR.

The better answer is probably just to buy metal mags. I have a bunch and they all perform perfectly in the SCAR

2 issues I've found:

1 -Drop free: (some do some don't)

I've tested a bunch of pmags now and I cannot find any way to tell what pmags will work and what pmags won't work

Many folks post up stuff that says a certain marking will work or not, but so far I don't find that to be true.

2 - Releasing the bolt from the charging handle

I have old pmags, new pmags, and everything between.

So far none of them will allow the bolt to release by pulling the charging handle to the rear. The pmags work fine using the button to release the bolt, but won't release by pulling the charging handle to the rear. I've not found this issue to be true with any of my metal mags.

I've used a Dremel to work my pmags and they now all perform properly for drop free and they allow the bolt to be released by pulling the charging handle to the rear.

To fix the bolt release issue just copy a metal mag. The pmag is oval shaped at the back of the mag and the metal mag is rectangular in shape. Remove a little of the material at the left of the oval and they perform properly. The oval I am talking about is the point where you would see the primers if the mag were loaded.

Hope this helps

[mpeltier]

Try the Magpul E-mag. They are supposed to be designed for the FN SCAR and other NATO Stanag spec rifles. Brownells has them in stock.

[joshua79109]

Try the Magpul E-mag. They are supposed to be designed for the FN SCAR and other NATO Stanag spec rifles. Brownells has them in stock.

Thanks for the heads up.

I've heard they (E-mags) work well in the SCAR, but not so well in some ARs. Can anyone confirm either way? I would like to hear if the E-mags allow the bolt to release by pulling the charging handle to the rear, if anyone has some to confirm one way or the other. I've heard the E-mags work for the drop free issue, but I've never heard anyone else talk about the bolt release issue.

Really my post is just geared towards making pmags work in the SCAR for folks who have a bunch of pmags that they'd like to use in the SCAR. My pmags still perform properly in an AR as well.

Edited May 29, 2010 by joshua79109

[davidwiz]

The biggest difference between the regular P-Mag and the E-Mag is that the E-Mag does not have the external ridges on it.

I've seen pictures of Team FHN-USA shooters using regular P-Mags in the SCAR.

[Jadeslade]

E-mags work just like P-mags. Except the outside is different.

[KentG]

If these things price drops to real world prices I will get one. Or if a decent used one comes up later this year.

[davidwiz]

If these things price drops to real world prices I will get one. Or if a decent used one comes up later this year.

I would keep checking http://fnforum.net as used SCARs show up. A while ago, one was available for under $2k IIRC.

[joshua79109]

Looks like the SCAR Light has been dropped, but the SCAR Heavy is still in the running.

http://www.military.com/news/article/spec-ops-command-cancels-new-rifle.html

Edited June 28, 2010 by joshua79109

[davidwiz]

Looks like the SCAR Light has been dropped, but the SCAR Heavy is still in the running.

http://www.military.com/news/article/spec-ops-command-cancels-new-rifle.html

Spec Ops Command Cancels New Rifle

snip

What part of

© Copyright 2010 Military.com. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

didn't you understand?

[joshua79109]

Looks like the SCAR Light has been dropped, but the SCAR Heavy is still in the running.

http://www.military.com/news/article/spec-ops-command-cancels-new-rifle.html

Spec Ops Command Cancels New Rifle

snip

What part of

© Copyright 2010 Military.com. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

didn't you understand?

Thanks for the information.

Way to pounce, kind sir.

[joshua79109]

SCAR is now a little over 7440 rounds.

Here is a few targets from my last range session. This was after 380 rounds were run through it. Still running the 2moa Aimpoint and 3X mag.

200 yards off a pack

60 grain Hornady VMax and Win 748

12 rounds

10 rounds

Now I'm to the point of hoping the 17s runs as good as the 16s.