Ron Ankeny Posted October 27, 2003 Share Posted October 27, 2003 Well it looks like I finally managed to mutate into a flaming a'hole and tick off about half of my local club today. Stage 1 began with the shooter's strong hand on a doorknob. The wall/door was at about a 45 degree angle to the "180" and peanut gallery. The RO does the typical small club command, "If you understand the course of fire you may load and make ready." I load up and get into the start position with my hand on the doorknob. The next command was, "The shooter is ready." I assumed the beep would follow shortly. I had finally had a belly full of the non-standard commands so I let go of the doorknob, turned to face the RO and said, "No I'm not. Please ask if I am ready." The fight was on, lol. To make a long story short, the RO wanted to give me a DQ for turning to face him with a loaded pistol in my holster. Should I have received a DQ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Di Vita Posted October 27, 2003 Share Posted October 27, 2003 Sorry about the fight... To answer your question though, my guess would be no since they don't DQ people for assuming an "uprange" starting position. Likely he was just embarrassed and felt he needed to retaliate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikW Posted October 27, 2003 Share Posted October 27, 2003 Next time, demand the rule number under which the supposed infraction occurred and demand an arbitration form. You can face uprange and dance a jig with a hot holstered gun if you want. However, it's bad form to bend forward at the waist or go prone such that your muzle sweeps people behind you. (But still not DQable?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Pinto Posted October 27, 2003 Share Posted October 27, 2003 Ron, I didn't realise you were such a rabble-rouser. Anyway, Jake hit the nail on the head - what you've described is not grounds for a DQ but, since the RO failed to recite the correct commands verbatim, I suspect he'd have no problems creating his own set of DQ infractions. Then again, who am I to comment? I once DQ'd Chepit Dulay (Match Director) of WSXIII) for wearing Unsportsmanlike Socks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ankeny Posted October 27, 2003 Author Share Posted October 27, 2003 Vince: It's not that I am a rouser of rabble, it's just that enough is enough. Myself and several other RO's in the area agree that we all need to make a real effort to standardize commands. This wasn't an isolated incident, it's been going on for a long time. I vented in the Hate forum, lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhino Posted October 27, 2003 Share Posted October 27, 2003 Just a little question . . . Do you mind if the RO prefaces the actual by-the-book range commands with the old "if you understand the course of fire" or "do you have any questions" as long as it's obvious that the range commands are separate? Or do you just want to hear: "Load and make ready" etc? with no other chatter before or after? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted October 27, 2003 Share Posted October 27, 2003 Rhino, I just want to hear "LAMR" the rest of it is my responsibility and if I have any questions, I'll ask them. I'll also tell the R.O. if I'm gonna do anything whacky --- like radical changes in direction.... Just because I don't want to trip over him. It takes too long to get back up --- and there's usually not a forklift available to help... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garfield Posted October 27, 2003 Share Posted October 27, 2003 Hey Ron, I'm with you, I have (had) similar troubles at my club as well. Once I was the only IPSC-licensed shooter there, now there are three of us and more to come, so things are changing for the better (slowly). I'm all for keeping the commands standard, in that respect I fully agree with Nik. And Vince, your comment on those socks begs for an explanation, please tell ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skywalker Posted October 27, 2003 Share Posted October 27, 2003 Ron, I'm with you on this one. I would suggest, the next time something similar happens, you ask the RO "how can you expect me to stick to the rulebook if you don't?" Or, otherwise, you can show up on the deck with a shirt with the following embroidered on the back: 8.3 Range Communications - The approved range commands and their sequence are as follows:8.3.1 "Load And Make Ready" - This command signifies the start of "the course of fire". Under the direct supervision of the Range Officer the competitor will face down range, fit eye and hearing protection, and prepare the handgun in accordance with the stage briefing. The competitor shall then assume the required ready position. At this point, the Range Officer shall proceed. 8.3.2 "Are You Ready?" – The lack of any negative response from the competitor indicates that they fully understand the requirements of the course of fire and that they are ready to proceed. If the competitor is not ready at the "Are you ready?" command, they must shout "Not Ready". It is suggested that when the competitor takes up the ready position, placing the hands into the position required will indicate final readiness to the Range Officer. 8.3.3 "Standby" – This command will be followed by the start signal within 1 to four 4 seconds. 8.3.4 “Start Signal” - The signal to begin shooting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liota Posted October 27, 2003 Share Posted October 27, 2003 We have at least one RO in our club who insists on using old range commands. With new shooters showing up almost every match, using the standard range commands is more important than ever. We have started giving no response to incorrect range commands. Liota Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Pinto Posted October 27, 2003 Share Posted October 27, 2003 Arvid, OK, let me begin my explanation by telling you that Chepit Dulay is truly one of my "IPSC Kid Brothers", so I have great pleasure in giving him a hard time at every possible opportunity. In fact, sometimes I think we were separated at birth. If you've seen the movie "Twins", you'll get the general idea (Danny DeVito would play Chepit). There are two things Chepit never wears - socks or underwear - because he's what you might call a "Free Spirit". His only pleasures in life are IPSC, wind-surfing and sex (in that order), and underwear cramps his style in all three events. The other thing is that Chepit always wears shorts. The only time I've ever seen him wear trousers was at the WSXIII awarding ceremony (he was the MD), but that's only because 4 of us held him down while another 2 guys used a tacker to staple his trousers to his legs. Luckily they were black trousers, so they concealed the blood nicely. Anyway, one time while Chepit was walking around the range in his shorts (and no underwear), he sat down to have a chat with a squad of competitors. As he crossed his legs, certain parts of his anatomy (which our British friends might describe as "meat and two veggies"), were clearly exposed for all to see, including two young ladies (they subsequently decided to become nuns). Being a responsible RO, I immediately DQ'd him for "Having a loaded weiner outside a COF" but, since that would have raised too many questions in Stats, I recorded the infraction as "Unsportsmanlike Socks" (this phrase has since been officially adopted by IPSC to mean "Chepit made another foo-foo"). The disappointing part was that Chepit did not file an appeal to arbitration. We were hoping that he would, because we were ready to video his testimony and, of course, the "evidence", for "America's Funniest Home Videos". Or possibly "National Pornographic". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skywalker Posted October 27, 2003 Share Posted October 27, 2003 I think we were separated at birth. If you've seen the movie "Twins", you'll get the general idea (Danny DeVito would play Chepit). So what part is going Myro play in this comedy? I'd suggest (having met all of you in Terni) to change the quote in another great film: "The good, the bad and the ugly", but then the decision on who's gonna play who is up to you... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garfield Posted October 27, 2003 Share Posted October 27, 2003 Vince, funny story ! And of course Chepit would be played by Danny DeVito and you by mr. Governor himself ... YOU WISH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lynn jones Posted October 27, 2003 Share Posted October 27, 2003 close quote.. chicks dig me because i rarely wear underware and when i do, it's usually exotic.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skywalker Posted October 27, 2003 Share Posted October 27, 2003 underwear cramps his style ...is what Rhino shall have thought during the IDPA Indiana Regional (a.k.a. "The day the pants failed") Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhino Posted October 27, 2003 Share Posted October 27, 2003 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ankeny Posted October 27, 2003 Author Share Posted October 27, 2003 rhino: I would prefer just LAMR but I can handle the precommand talk like, "Do you understand the COF?" What I really dislike are non-standard commands once the LAMR command is given. BTW, all of these guys are certified ROs who just believe that the non-standard commands are friendlier and not as cold as the standard commands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Pinto Posted October 27, 2003 Share Posted October 27, 2003 Skywalker, Here's a photo of the last time Chepit, Myro and I were together (I'm the one in the middle and Myro has more hair than Chepit): Nyuk! Nyuk! Nyuk! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garfield Posted October 27, 2003 Share Posted October 27, 2003 I'm speechless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AikiDale Posted October 28, 2003 Share Posted October 28, 2003 Another RO who would like to stick to the standard commands, I really appreciate it when the shooters are also happy with them. I have had at least one shooter ask me why I did not ask if he had any questions, I think he thought I was being rude. since that is the local norm. After reading this thread I think I will mention between the stage briefing and the first shooter why I will only use the standard commands. Thanks for bringing it up Ron. By the way, if I know a shooter is new, nervous, or just from some less civilized region of the planet I am inclined to fall into my Kentucky Colonel mode and resort to old fashioned Southern Hospitality in an effort to "safely assist the shooter through the course of fire." I.e., You'all ready to commence with the day's activities? Can I get you a mint julep or something else to drink? How about something to eat, might help settle your stomach? Well then, LOAD and MAKE READY! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ankeny Posted October 28, 2003 Author Share Posted October 28, 2003 Speaking of Southern hospitality, the Kentucky Colonel was entertaining fellow officers and their spouses. During dinner the Colonel's wife asked, "So where you all from?" The wife of one of the officers replied, "I am from a place where we do not end a sentence with a preposition." After a brief pause the Colonel's wife inquired, "So, where you all from....bitch." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Pinto Posted October 28, 2003 Share Posted October 28, 2003 And then there was the wife of retiring French General Charles De Gaulle who, when reporters asked her what single thing she was most looking forward to having on their retirement from public life, replied: "A penis". After a few moments of silence, when the assembled throng of reporters were speechless, General De Gaulle leaned over to his wife and whispered in her ear: "Mon cherie, ze correct pronunciation is HAPPiness". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Pinto Posted October 28, 2003 Share Posted October 28, 2003 Hi guys, One more thing. In case you guys are interested in seeing an image of Chepit, Myro and I when we were younger: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Pinto Posted October 28, 2003 Share Posted October 28, 2003 And here's the IPSC Handgun Rules Committee: OK, I'll stop now ............ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IPSCDRL Posted October 28, 2003 Share Posted October 28, 2003 Hi folks, I tend to be a real stickler for the proper range commands as well as following all of the rest of the rules! That is what they are there for. That said, I will also perform a little pre-command banter on occasion and especially if the shooter is new and/or nervous. A great tip I learned from our Hungarian friend Ivan Ketler is to stand in front of the shooter while I do this so that there is no question that I am NOT issuing any range commands at that point. I will step back before I issue the commands. This way I only issue the proper commands during the course of fire but can be friendly and try to make sure the competitor is fully ready before I begin. As far as the commands go, uniformity is best for all involved. I try to educate other RO’s so that they use the proper commands. If you say “slide forward” I’m going to ask how far…. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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