Hornady L-n-L AP Progressive -Dillon Dies 9mm

[steveyacht]

Note: press is a Hornady L-n-L AP Progressive

I set my press up last night for 9mm using Dillon Dies. Using 124/125 grn LRN's I found that he Decapping/resizing/flaring dies does not seem to get enough flare on the case. The result is that Have to be very careful in setting the bullet, even then they have dropped off when the press indexess (about 10% of the time) While this is not serious it is very annoying and slows me down quite a bit. Anyway to adjust this that I can't find in the directions?

Edited June 11, 2009 by Flexmoney
clarity

[Dan Hefta]

The powder drop stage is when the case gets flared, you need to adjust or lower your powder drop flaring stage.

[Paul Santiago]

What dan said. The powder die does the flaring of the

case mouth and you only need enough to allow the bullet to stay in position for the seating step.

[steveyacht]

The powder drop stage is when the case gets flared, you need to adjust or lower your powder drop flaring stage.

I do not have drop through die for my powder station. According to the directions that came with the Dillon Dies the Decapping/resizing die has the job of also flaring the case.

[scottrebello]

If you use the Dillon powder measure it has a floating shiny piece. It extend down and is visible when the press is set up. It flares your case when fully the case goes into it during powder dispensing. Adjust down as necessary.

[JThompson]

What press do you have???

[Canuck223]

The powder drop stage is when the case gets flared, you need to adjust or lower your powder drop flaring stage.

I do not have drop through die for my powder station. According to the directions that came with the Dillon Dies the Decapping/resizing die has the job of also flaring the case.

To the best of my knowledge, there is not a single manufacturer whos sizing die also flairs the case, nor can my head get around how that might be accomplished. Belling of the case is always a seperate operation. In Dillon presses, other than perhaps the funky (550 without the fun bits that you know you really want but don't buy because you've listened to the "No progressive presses as your first press") abortion, belling is done by the funnel that drives the powder measure.

[Pat Miles]

What press do you have???

Good question! I think we all assumed that this gentleman has a Dillon press since he mentioned the use of Dillon dies. Reading his reply it sounds as if he does not have a Dillon which is not a problem at all. Without knowing what press he has we cannot offer solutions.

What press do you have?

CYa,

Pat

[steveyacht]

What press do you have???

Good question! I think we all assumed that this gentleman has a Dillon press since he mentioned the use of Dillon dies. Reading his reply it sounds as if he does not have a Dillon which is not a problem at all. Without knowing what press he has we cannot offer solutions.

What press do you have?

CYa,

Pat

I have a Hornady L-n-L AP Progressive. I bought the Dillon dies from Brian based upon suggestions to use Dillon dies here. I like the ability to clean them and not have to recalibrate everything.

[uscbigdawg]

There in lies the rub.

Do you have an extra station, prior to the powder measure that will allow the use of a conventional belling die? If so, that's what I'd suggest. What I'd do is go buy a 550 (or other Dillon press).

Rich

[steveyacht]

There in lies the rub.

Do you have an extra station, prior to the powder measure that will allow the use of a conventional belling die? If so, that's what I'd suggest. What I'd do is go buy a 550 (or other Dillon press).

Rich

If I had known that Dillon Dies were inadequate for the job intended, no matter the press, I would have purchased a different brand. That be known, I think I will test their So Called NBS warranty. Going through the expense of purchasing another die is BS, in my humble opinion. Particularly when other die companies do not have this problem.

At least a fair warning should be given prior to purhcasing "This Die Set does NOT include a belling die or provisions for belling the case mouth." PS, your comment about buying a 550 was uncalled for.

Edited June 11, 2009 by steveyacht

[Dan Hefta]

You need to have thick skin on this forum, sorry we could not help you out. I have no experience with any reloaders other than Dillon, you should have gotten a powder funnel die with the set. We were all assuming that you had a Dillon press.

[Canuck223]

There in lies the rub.

Do you have an extra station, prior to the powder measure that will allow the use of a conventional belling die? If so, that's what I'd suggest. What I'd do is go buy a 550 (or other Dillon press).

Rich

If I had known that Dillon Dies were inadequate for the job intended, no matter the press, I would have purchased a different brand. That be known, I think I will test their So Called NBS warranty. Going through the expense of purchasing another die is BS, in my humble opinion. Particularly when other die companies do not have this problem.

At least a fair warning should be given prior to purhcasing "This Die Set does NOT include a belling die or provisions for belling the case mouth." PS, your comment about buying a 550 was uncalled for.

Do a search for KISS bullet feeders as there is (?) a thread about a flow through powder expander used on the LNL with the bullet feeder. You're not out of luck, athough you will most likely need to grab another die.

[Sarge]

Best of luck to ya'. I challenge you to find a more helpful bunch of people anywhere. It appears you do not understand the loading process as much as you might think. You were offered help and opinions, you did not like the opinions. Had you been a little more thick skinned you would have all of your questions answered by now.

[steveyacht]

There in lies the rub.

Do you have an extra station, prior to the powder measure that will allow the use of a conventional belling die? If so, that's what I'd suggest. What I'd do is go buy a 550 (or other Dillon press).

Rich

If I had known that Dillon Dies were inadequate for the job intended, no matter the press, I would have purchased a different brand. That be known, I think I will test their So Called NBS warranty. Going through the expense of purchasing another die is BS, in my humble opinion. Particularly when other die companies do not have this problem.

At least a fair warning should be given prior to purhcasing "This Die Set does NOT include a belling die or provisions for belling the case mouth." PS, your comment about buying a 550 was uncalled for.

Do a search for KISS bullet feeders as there is (?) a thread about a flow through powder expander used on the LNL with the bullet feeder. You're not out of luck, athough you will most likely need to grab another die.

Please forgive my frustration boiling over, I am usually VERY thick skinned. Just that having to wait, months for components, paying nearly double for shell plates, dies and other crapola, now this....... Just pushed me over the edge. I am all about fairness. If Dillon dies will only work in Dillon presses without additional expenditures, that should be known up front. In this case, that fact was no where to be found prior to my pruchase, on this web site or on Dillon's. If it were, I would have said, "shame on me".

PS: I took a couple months researching, looking at, and using a Lee, RCBS, Hornady and Dillon. I would have bought the Dillon 650

if I felt that they offered the same value, initial cost and at least as high a quality machining and mechanisms as the Hornady. (not to mention 1000 free Hornady bullets)

[uscbigdawg]

Best of luck to ya'. I challenge you to find a more helpful bunch of people anywhere. It appears you do not understand the loading process as much as you might think. You were offered help and opinions, you did not like the opinions. Had you been a little more thick skinned you would have all of your questions answered by now.

I echo sandman's statements, that you probably have bit more than you can chew to this point. A little bit of education of die sets, their associated jobs and uses would have been fruitful. While I'm all for seller disclosure, there are some things that are apparent and that includes a bit of personal accountability.

That said, nothing from Hornady equals anything from Dillon in the way of quality, service to customer and support of the shooting sports...especially the predominent one of the members of this forum and its host. And a thousand bullets is a drop in the bucket to being able to call Dillon for ANYTHING and getting it sent out the same day and repaired/replaced for free.

Rich

ETA: So that I'm not a total jerk, I bet if you contact of the OP of this thread he'd consider buying them off of you.

Edited June 11, 2009 by uscbigdawg

[Flexmoney]

I am going to move this thread and tweak the title and maybe edit the first post... That way it's a bit more apparent what the question/problem is.

- Admin.

[Jeff686]

I understand some people here love Dillon, but could they refrain from bashing others please? I have a Hornady LNL press, and it has been working great for me. I did have to call customer support about a problem, and they sent me a replacement part the same day. It was the exact same experience I had when my Dillon press had a problem.

Now, to answer the original question...

I agree with an above post, I've never seen a resizing die that also flairs the brass. Here's what I have in my Hornady LNL AP press for 38 super:

Station 1: resize and decap (Dillon Die)

Station 2: powder drop and flair (Hornady powder measure + powder thru expander)

Station 3: empty (waiting for bullet feeder)

Station 4: Bullet Seating (Dillon Die)

Station 5: Crimp Die (Hornady)

I have a mix of dies because that is what I had handy when I setup 38 super.

Alternative 1:

Station 1: resize and decap

Station 2: powder drop

Station 3: flair

Station 4: bullet seat

Station 5: Crimp

Alternative 2: combine seating and crimping (I do this for 45ACP)

Steve, you can either buy a powder-thru-expander from Hornady (if you use a Hornady powder measure), or you can buy a flairing die (any brand). If you're paying for shipping anyway, I'd also get a 'pistol rotor' for the Hornady powder measure. It has a more consistent drop, and is easier to make fine adjustmetns than the standard size rotor (for small charges needed in pistols). The Dillon dies you are currently using will work great. Flairing is always done later, no matter what brand dies you have.

I hope you have the eZject system. It makes adjusting the crimp die a lot easier. I just got the conversion kit from Hornady last week, but have not installed it. I need to clean my bench so I can video tape the conversion process.

[Canuck223]

http://www.comrace.ca/cmfiles/bulletFeeder...pressedPics.pdf

Here is a write up you might find interesting.

[xcelr8hard]

Alternative 1:

Station 1: resize and decap

Station 2: powder drop

Station 3: flair

Station 4: bullet seat

Station 5: Crimp

For over 10k rounds I have been doing the flair before the powder drop. Is this wrong or just a preferene thing?

From what I gather, the powder through expander is a little tricky to adjust. If you don't have a bullet feeder, I would get the die.

The small rotor is absolutely the way to go. I couldn't get consistent throws with 4.0gr. until I got one.

There is a learning curve to everything. Just be patient and absorb it.

Butch

[Jeff686]

Alternative 1:

Station 1: resize and decap

Station 2: powder drop

Station 3: flair

Station 4: bullet seat

Station 5: Crimp

For over 10k rounds I have been doing the flair before the powder drop. Is this wrong or just a preferene thing?

From what I gather, the powder through expander is a little tricky to adjust. If you don't have a bullet feeder, I would get the die.

The small rotor is absolutely the way to go. I couldn't get consistent throws with 4.0gr. until I got one.

There is a learning curve to everything. Just be patient and absorb it.

Butch

Oops, right. That was a typo. Should be flair, then powder drop.

I too had trouble adjusting the powder thru expander, but Hornady is making a new slider adjustment for the powder drop that will simplify the process. PM me if you want details.

[steveyacht]

Gentlemen,

Thank you all for your advice and your help. I would also like to take the time to thank Brian Enos for returning my e-mail regarding this. While I really like the performance of the Dillon Dies, I also feel that there should be some mention, somewhere about the lack of a belling function in their three die sets, being as they are "specifically designed for Dillon Loading Presses, even though you can use them in any press" (quote from Dillon guy on the phone). No mention is made on their web site or even in the instructions that came with the set, that is where I think they are sorely laking. Brian will be including a mention in his FAQ section to cover this omission by Dillon, Kudos to Brian!!

I have ordered Hornady's case expanding die from Midway. My other dies are Hornady's and I have been very pleased with their quality and function, as well as the quality and funcion of the press. I am also VERY impressed with customer service, I had the need for assistance, spoke with Bob there, he was MOST helpful, promising to send me ANYTHING I needed without question, being as it has a Lifetime Warranty, just like a Dillon. Turned out to be a disconnect between operator's ears, was still comforting to know they are there for me.

Just because I prefer red Kool-Aide to Blue is no reason to bash my preference.

Again, thank you all.

[CocoBolo]

Been there done that. For starters and all you Dillion guys take a break. I sold all my Dillon dies bought hornady dies, one reason they are better. Also sold off all my Lee dies, they are inferior.

That said the hornady expander die is the best die for expanding. I do not use the powder thru expander die from Hornady because it is crap, 38 Super Brass has to be bought at $0.15 ea a die the ruins brass is bad, ever so often it will take a chunk out of the brass..

Stations 1 =Decap Size, 2= Expander 3=Powder 4 = Bullet Seat and 5 = Taper Crimp.

If you cannot get a Hornady Expander die (not the powder thru) and in these times I would expect that, Lee makes a universal expander die for Cowboy action shooters that works very well for all calibers (One die for all). Their powder thru expander die is junk the worst.

The expander die is very important when loading moly coated bullets, if you cut the moly you will spend hours cleaning the barrel of your gun. If you are loading lead or moly bullets be sure to only use a taper crimp die, a "factory" die will undersize the bullet and it will wobble down the barrel and fill the rifeling with lead. The factory crimp die works fine on jacketed bullets.

Also note that the Hornady bullet seating die has a sliding sleeve that aligns the bullet before forcing it down the brass, so if you lay one in a little sideways it aligns it and it goes right in, another reason I went to Hornady dies.

I use my lnl for 9 mm, 40, 45, 38 Super Comp, 357, 30 Carbine and .223 Rem, I load about 1500 rounds a month. I don't start crying like a little girl when I have to change calibers, because I don't have a Dillon.

+1 on the small pistol powder rotor. Also I bought a metering insert for every caliber that way you only have to set it when you decide to change your load or powder. Snap in the die, push in the metering insert, throw on the shell plate < 3 minutes you are loading another caliber.

[steveyacht]

Been there done that. For starters and all you Dillion guys take a break. I sold all my Dillon dies bought hornady dies, one reason they are better. Also sold off all my Lee dies, they are inferior.

.

+1 on the small pistol powder rotor. Also I bought a metering insert for every caliber that way you only have to set it when you decide to change your load or powder. Snap in the die, push in the metering insert, throw on the shell plate < 3 minutes you are loading another caliber.

Thank you, as I mentioned, I like the Dillon dies, they are doing nearly as good a job as my Hornady dies.

My new machine came with the EZJect and both pistol and larger caliber metering rotor and inserts. I have since purchased 3 additional metering inserts for each load I am currently using. I can see myself buying a few more as I expand the number of calibers and loads. May as well have one and put it in the die box for each caliber. Makes changing loads so much easier and even faster. Right now I can change from 9mm to .270 in 5 minutes or less.

I also take some of the spousal unit's nail polish and mark the threads and end of the rod, color coding them to each load. In addition I color color coded my primer pick up, feed tubes and sliders the same way. Easier to find in the tupperware container I use to keep them in, and won't come off with normal use and cleaning.

[Canuck223]

Due to this thread, I took fresh look at the Hornady press on thier website.

I started loading on an older version, the Pro-Jector. It was a great, strong, flexible press. It had a few weaknesses that I didn't love, but it was an excellent press to start with.

In looking at the Lock and Load AP, it seems like they took a lot of customer feedback, and addressed nearly every one of my bitch list items.

Greasing is now simple and brainless.

Ejection should now be foolproof.

Priming should be far better.

Timing should no longer be finicky, and easily addressed when it does begin to wander.

The case feeder is of course a must.

That it can now be set up with a Mr.Bulletfeeder is a huge plus.

I'm not selling my 1050 any time soon, but I'd have a hard time talking someone out of buying a 650 if they had this one in mind.