Stage array problems- when to move on?

[Bigpops]

IMHO NEVER. I have never moved on. Lowered the gun and took a breath a couple of times the first year or so, but always shot the targets presented. How are you going to learn? Your a new guy or fairly new anyways, and this is what we do. We shoot the targets. If you have unloaded on it, whatever it is, and haven't cleared the array, you are already in the trash heap of that stage. Take a breath, relax, reset, and get some learning in. No time like the present. I know that some of the BIG DOGS figure all the math and angles and adjust the game plan. Hey, they can walk and beat us. Maybe some day you or I will have that game. We won't get there calling it quits. We will get there (hopefully) by taking advantage of learning how something is done, even if it cost us a stage/match. And if it is one of "those" days, well then that's just practice for having one of "those" days at a big match. Those crappy days can happen in a match, shoot through it. A small caveat,.... don't practice if everything is going to crap, don't want to drill in crap. I'm a high "B" open, with about 5 years of competition, so......this is IMHO. Good shooting to you!

+1

[Ron Ankeny]

This topic was not all about shooting the TS, it was more along the lines of when to move on when encountering problems.

I hate to see a new shooter put in the position of having to give up, but sometimes moving on is better than beating oneself up in a match. Doing a "controlled restart" is an important skill to have, but sometimes a shooter is just so ill prepared to deal with the shot that moving on is the only option that makes any sense. When to move on is a matter of your personal temperament. You need to decide which is more constructive (or destructive) to your growth, shooting at a target until you are ankle deep in brass and never hitting it, shooting a couple of magazines worth of ammo until you hit the damn thing, or purposefully dealing with a minor defeat that can be turned into a learning opportunity. The choice is yours. Choose carefully.

I will say in this sport reactive steel shows everyone how successful, or how unsuccessful, the shooter is on that particular shot. But let's stop and consider for a moment how many times a shooter "moves on" even though they have failed miserably. But they didn't know they failed because they miscalled the shot or they can't call the shot in the first place. All of those Charlie/Mike, Delta/Mike/No-Shoot, etc., scores are indications the shooter had problems and "moved on". They just didn't know. Which is worse?

Edited June 5, 2009 by Ron Ankeny

[Bigpops]

Nice points Ron...thank you.

[rvb]

Think about you reloads and your gameplan, too.

This applies more to the PD/SS/Rev guys, but can apply to everyone depending on the stage.

Is pumping lead at a TX-star or some other difficult array not only costing you time hosing, but time for an additional reload (worst case a standing RL?)?

For example, If I enter an array w/ a TS + 2 poppers, that's 7 rounds. Most likely, shooting PD/SS I'm reloading entering and leaving that position. That means in PD I have 4 extra rounds w/o changing my gameplan. If SS/maj, then that's 2 extra rounds w/o changing the plan. Every target needs to be engaged once to prevent penalties.

While I appreciate the determination to clean an array no matter what, even knee deep in brass and empty mags, the goal is to maximize stage points. Save the practice for another day (preferable before the match!).

Even in Limited for example, if you have 18 rounds in the gun on a 14-round stage, you need to understand the impact of burning more than 4 rounds. Maybe you have a good point to reload later on if need be? Maybe it'll force a standing reload? Is the complex array at the beginning or end of the stage and does that affect your decision?

These are all things to think about during the walk through. Sometimes I'll have a "backup plan" so that if a couple extra shots throw off my reload plan I have an addition point in the stage thought out where I could do an extra reload and not do it standing, or maybe be able to engage a missed target from somewhere else, etc.

-rvb

[gino_aki]

The most elementary thing to do is to make sure your gun shoots where it's pointed at...not a little low, not a little high, not a bit to the left or right. Stars are not the only culprits; five or six US poppers in a row can do the same.

As rvb said, on the walk-through make an optimum plan and a back up for what to do if any particular array blows you up. It can be as simple as "I will not shoot more than one mag at the Star" (L-10/Production) or "any extra shots at the Star, reload after the swinger" (Limited/Open) or as complicated as "Is it better to shoot it right to left and leave the Star for last?" (SS).

Most of the guys in our club used to be "never say die" when we first got our Star...nowadays even our shooters who have the most problems with it rarely use more than nine rounds and most will not use more than one mag before moving on, being that we shoot Everything-10 and our course designers will stick the Star just about anywhere in their stage designs.

[CocoBolo]

I'm a C class I have shot multiple stars in a stage and thru ports and even prone. Texas State Limited last year had one that by the time the window was open it was a spinning like a Windmill in a hurricane.

My answer on the question is if you have to ask apparently it really doesn't matter, you are not going to win the Caddilac or the Vette.

I am an ex Army Ranger our credo will not let my quit I have to shoot every last mother's son of them or die trying. My wife shoots and I tell her two shots on each piece of steel then move on. If it gets to the point where everyone is having to put on another coat of sun block maybe its time to give it up.

+1 to the guy that said don't get psyched out, because that is what steel does. It can be very humbling.

The worst was RiverCity last match about 28 yards to the Star, I tripped on the pile of brass as I moved out, but I got all of them.

[Chris iliff]

Ron made some good points up above, enough so that maybe I need to soften my stance a little. I guess it would come down to your own preference. Everyone is different. A thirty yard shot on an 8" plate could be fairly intimidating, a new guy might need to practice a similiar skill on his own first. Maybe a few shots, move on (okay there I said it), finish the stage and come back to re-engage. I just really draw the line at the complete give up.

[Joe4d]

Well no one has done the math yet, and to answer you actual question we need to do some. Sooooooo

senerio 1 20 shot stage is worth 100 points, you know you cant shoot a texas star so you run and gun the stage, blast five rounds at the star to avoid the failure to engage (does steel get them?) and shoot the rest of the stage perfectly which is a pretty far stretch because if you could hit all A's you could hit the star but anyway. lets say you do all this in a 20 second run, which if all hits is a HF of 5 a good solid C class HF, but in your case you skipped the star, so you got 75 points minus the 50 points in mikes gives 25 points / 20 for a HF of 1.25. Now to better that score hitting everything you would have 80 seconds. so if you could run that stage the same and take 59 seconds on just the star you would have a HF of 1.26 and some self respect.

[Shawn Knight]

Math smath!!!

No one gives a crap about the mathematical consequences of not shooting the star.

New shooters need to understand that they are responsible for their shooting ability.

Your skill level can do nothing but go up the more you practice and the more you shoot. It will stop at whatever you choose to let it stop at. My skill level has stopped because I just cannot afford the ammo, time, and gas to shoot right now. I only get "practice" at local matches. I go all out and try everything I can to get the most out of each "training" session I can get. I may not win all the time or I might have some poor stages but when I go to big matches I can shoot at a higher skill level than what I would normally use at a local match. Individual stages are not a measure off the sum of your shooting skill. The overall scores of the match are where you see your skill level increase.

Get to the range and practice, practice, practice!!!

[Bigpops]

Math smath!!!

No one gives a crap about the mathematical consequences of not shooting the star.

New shooters need to understand that they are responsible for their shooting ability.

Your skill level can do nothing but go up the more you practice and the more you shoot. It will stop at whatever you choose to let it stop at. My skill level has stopped because I just cannot afford the ammo, time, and gas to shoot right now. I only get "practice" at local matches. I go all out and try everything I can to get the most out of each "training" session I can get. I may not win all the time or I might have some poor stages but when I go to big matches I can shoot at a higher skill level than what I would normally use at a local match. Individual stages are not a measure off the sum of your shooting skill. The overall scores of the match are where you see your skill level increase.

Get to the range and practice, practice, practice!!!

Let me be sure I understand you Shawn...are you saying practice is important?

I do as much as I can. This was just an off the wall question.

[NoSteel]

Another question on this subject. In this scenario lets say a shooter engages the star with 1 shot dropping 1 plate and then moves on to finish a stage. Would this be 4 Mikes's or 4 Mike's with 4 FTE's?? If things were not going well for me on the star I think I would insure I fired enough to cover the FTE's then finish the course of fire as cleanly as possible if round count was an issue just to keep my time down. As a new shooter, the star looks like fun but if it's going bad why let it ruin the stage........

[Shawn Knight]

Each plate on the star is an individual target. If you take one shot at it then you get 4 mike and 4 FTE.