alcornl Posted May 18, 2009 Share Posted May 18, 2009 (edited) I am fairly new to open, been shooting it for about 6 months from limited. I did alot of research and ended up using 3N38. Loaded a bunch of loads and chrono'd and came up with 9.2 gr at 1.250 in a 38 SC with Federal SR primers behind MG 124 JHP. This load is right around 168 PF. Any load above 8.9 grs and the muzzle flip is very bad and recoil is harsh. I needed 9.4 to make 170PF and this is a brutal round. Everyone talked about how clean 3N38 was, but it leaves alot of unburnt powder and garbage in my mags and gun. Went through 2000 of these and then decided to tried a pound of 7625. Worked up a load and at 7.4 gr it makes 173PF and shoots remarkably softer than the 3N38 with much better muzzle flip and very little recoil. 7.9 gr makes 180PF and is still softer than VV, not to mention very clean. My gun is a wilson 38 super barrel and 3 port comp on a SVI frame. Question is, has anyone had this discovery and if so, why does everyone like 3N38. It barely makes major and from what I can see burns so slow that instead of working the comp better, it is just throwing alot of flame and more muzzle flip than the faster burning powders. I know I will hear, everyone's gun and comp is different, but this is a considerable difference. Edited May 18, 2009 by alcornl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgunz11 Posted May 18, 2009 Share Posted May 18, 2009 Your experiences are way different than mine. 3N38 is REALLY clean. I di have to use 10.0 gr of powder behind a 124 MG JHP with WSP primer to get 170 pf. This is my wife's gun, and if you think that load is harsh... well there's not much I can do to help you out there. If you like the 7625 run with it. It's certainly cheaper and probably easier to find. Don't let approval from a bunch of type A guys on the internet be the thing to get your boat sailing. Use what works for you, and we'll do the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted May 18, 2009 Share Posted May 18, 2009 My experiences match alcornl's w/ respect to the cleanliness of the loads. 3N38 is not one of the cleaner powders out there. It seems to depend on how far back the first port is in your barrel (if you have ports) - the sooner pressure is uncorked, the less complete the burn (and the more powder it takes). Its also not the dirtiest racegun powder I've shot or seen. 7625, on the other hand, is the 2nd cleanest powder I've shot in a race gun (cleanest was 4756). 7625 does shoot quite soft - 3N38 is going to feel a little stiffer in the hand, simply due to the gun shooting a little flatter. At the same PF in my gun, 3N38 flipped less 7625, but didn't seem to track as smoothly as 7625. I didn't have any problems making major w/ 3N38, though, and didn't experience what I regarded as tremendous recoil, or anything. It definitely has a pronounced report and concussion, which can be mistaken for recoil if you're not used to them. In some guns, it seems to have a quasi-flamethrower effect, as well (lots and lots and lots of fireball out of the comp). I haven't had it in mine, but I can point at some notable examples... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgunz11 Posted May 18, 2009 Share Posted May 18, 2009 XRe, I have seen the fireball you are talking about in guns with bbl ports or poppel holes. The guns I have shot it in for testing are 2 STI Trubores and a Millenium Custom. The Trubor has no poppel holes, but the MC did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-ManBart Posted May 18, 2009 Share Posted May 18, 2009 My experience with it is pretty much what Dave mentioned. It's on the loud side and you'll feel more overpressure but only a little bit more recoil straight back. It's also pretty darned flat in my guns. It is a little on the dirty side, leaving unburned powder grains in the gun but I don't think they hurt anything at all and it's not ridiculously dirty. I guess if you only clean your gun every 2,500+ rounds it might start to matter, but even then I'm not sure. While it leaves those unburned grains I don't see a lot of the finer gunk buildup you get with some powders. In very particular lighting conditions I've seen a little bit of the fireball out of one of my guns, but I can't remember which one....just saw it a couple of times in weird lighting, but that was it. After the first time it happened I sort of chuckled and kept shooting. R, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alcornl Posted May 19, 2009 Author Share Posted May 19, 2009 Thanks for the replies. Good to know I'm not the only one. I have an older comp, with only 3 top ports, 2 side ports and a standard cone barrel, no popple holes. I'm thinking because I don't have as much comp action, the extra gas is just not doing me any good except more straight back recoil into my hand. The dot tracking with the 7625 is much more stable and resets on each shot nicely. With 3N38, the dot would be all over the place no matter how I gripped the gun. I am going to try some 4756 as well to see how it goes. Shot the best match yet with the 7625. My scores were markedly better since I was not chasing the dot everywhere. Thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davecutts Posted May 19, 2009 Share Posted May 19, 2009 My opinion on powder is shoot what you like not what someone else likes, if the 7625 FEELS better, you will shoot it better. That being said try to run a slower burning power that does not exhibit signs of over pressure. The performance gained or lost by choosing one powder over another is so miniscule don't even worry about it. Spend the time on the range or dry firing the results will be much better. There is nothing wrong with your older comp, mine is very similar (millennium) and works no better or worse than the Bedel comp I have on one of his pistols, or the Dawson comp I had on my first pistol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supermoto Posted May 19, 2009 Share Posted May 19, 2009 I have had good luck with 7625, the gun shoots soft and the dot is easy to track. It makes major and meters well. Other powders have made the dot to bouncy. Find a powder that you like, stick with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonT Posted May 19, 2009 Share Posted May 19, 2009 I have not used 7625 so I cannot compare. I have only used 3N38 and it works fine for me so, if it ain't broke don't fix it. Funny, I've never had a single fireball out of my gun (kinda disappointed ) 4 port hybrid w/5 port comp. I'm using 9.8, 124jhp, 1.240, for 168pf. The gun is very flat shooting, the recoil is tame, to me. I've never noticed any unburnt powder but I wouldn't say it's a clean powder. Well maybe it just looks dirty because I only clean my gun every 1000rds. Use what you like Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwin garcia Posted May 19, 2009 Share Posted May 19, 2009 I have had good luck with 7625, the gun shoots soft and the dot is easy to track. It makes major and meters well. Other powders have made the dot to bouncy. Find a powder that you like, stick with it. Amen, bro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmaass Posted May 19, 2009 Share Posted May 19, 2009 (edited) Find a powder that you like, stick with it. ...Until they stop making it or importing it! (Down to 8 pounds of Vectan SP2 in the closet....) Edited May 19, 2009 by jmaass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al503 Posted May 19, 2009 Share Posted May 19, 2009 Haven't tried 7625 but I get huge fireballs and booms out of my 5" in pretty much every mag and a lot less frequently in my shorty (both Brazos). One thing I notice is that the booms seem to clean out the carbon build up a little in the comp. It's too distracting to use in the 5" but it is a great load in the shorty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted May 19, 2009 Share Posted May 19, 2009 The performance gained or lost by choosing one powder over another is so miniscule don't even worry about it. Based on my experiences, in testing several different loads using empirical results as a basis, I couldn't disagree more. Based on your previous comments about "calling BS on those who claim their dot doesn't leave the window", maybe you need to try more load development, Dave... In fact, it was this work that caused me to switch from 4756 to N105 (a far more expensive, concussive and dirtier burning powder) - the results on the timer and on the target were undeniable, and were on the order of 10% improvement. Subjective concerns (feel, dot track, etc) are not good indicators - you can get used to shooting basically anything, and your perceptions of those things will change on a daily basis. The load that works best in a given gun/shooter combination will, in my experience, show a difference on paper and timer.... and its not generally miniscule.. I wouldn't spend time on load development in lieu of practice... but saying that load development means nothing is inaccurate, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alcornl Posted May 19, 2009 Author Share Posted May 19, 2009 The interesting thing that I found was that the 3N38 would be still burning as the case was ejecting and would throw a nice flame out of the ejection port as well as the comp. I tried this with a 14lb 12.5 lb and 11 lb spring, so would not say that the timing of the gun was off causing the slide to come back early causing the fire plum from the ejection port. I do again working up loads and running a few hundred to see how they work helped me learn that so far I like the 7625 better and it makes major much easier. Still going to try N105 and 4756. Thanks for the help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davecutts Posted May 19, 2009 Share Posted May 19, 2009 The performance gained or lost by choosing one powder over another is so miniscule don't even worry about it. Based on my experiences, in testing several different loads using empirical results as a basis, I couldn't disagree more. Based on your previous comments about "calling BS on those who claim their dot doesn't leave the window", maybe you need to try more load development, Dave... In fact, it was this work that caused me to switch from 4756 to N105 (a far more expensive, concussive and dirtier burning powder) - the results on the timer and on the target were undeniable, and were on the order of 10% improvement. Subjective concerns (feel, dot track, etc) are not good indicators - you can get used to shooting basically anything, and your perceptions of those things will change on a daily basis. The load that works best in a given gun/shooter combination will, in my experience, show a difference on paper and timer.... and its not generally miniscule.. I wouldn't spend time on load development in lieu of practice... but saying that load development means nothing is inaccurate, IMO. Dave fair enough, and I'm glad you found the right powder for you and your pistol. I've shot a lot of different loads, and done my fair share of testing and nothing made anything close to a 10% change one way or the other. Like most things I'll be sticking with what I shoot, and I'm sure you'll do the same. See you on the range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38supPat Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 Not 3n38, but close... 3n37 fireball Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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