alcornl

I figured I would post a pic of my older open gun for others to understand where I am coming from.

I ran my load up to 9.8 grns and got 167pf with it, but the case became so full that reloading with out spilling powder on every stroke became very annoying. The concussion and straight back recoil was very harsh with my even with the 12.5 pound spring. My slide is not cut down and with the burris on the back is very heavy, so that could be why my springs are heavier. I plan on experimenting with the 105 and 4756 when I run out of 7625, but well see what happens. I have become very happy with my gun, even though it is not as flat or a speedster as others. I do not shoot enough to warrant spending alot of money tweaking my gun to the max.

I have an older open gun I bought with a smaller 3 port comp like yours. The original owner said he ran N105 and would always make PF. I could not get 105 at the time so went with 3N38. At 9.5 grns I was getting numbers like you are getting and even bumping it up to 9.7 would barely hold above 165pf and the velocity spreads were all over the place, running a 124gr MG JHP. My dot was also jumping around and would not reset reliably with lots of unburnt powder. I would see flame coming out of the ejection port it was burning so slow. Even with a 12.5lb recoil spring the gun had too much gas. Under the advise of others I tried SR7625 and worked it up to 7.2 to 7.4. It now makes 170 to 175pf easily. I felt recoil coming back was softer and I went to an 11lb recoil spring. No more flash out of the ejection port and the dot resets much better. The 3N38 was giving me alot of sideways bounce of the dot. The 7625 runs very clean, no more unburnt powder and is not compressed, so I don't have to mess with powder spilling out of the cases on the press. I still have more muzzle flip than most other 4 port comp guns I've shot, but I also have a heavy slide with a burris fastfire riding on the back of the slide. I will probably try the 115's next go around to see if they help that, but I've run 5000 rounds through with this configuration and have become very comfortable with the gun and never worry about making PF. I know everyone's gun is different, but if you start running into problems with low PF's, SR7625 worked well for me and is about 10 bucks a pound cheaper. I also have a pound of SR4756 and N105 that I have not tried out. IMR powder does have inconsistency between batches, so the load changed when I bought 4 pounds, but only needed .2 grns less. I have not noticed many temp problems, but can't say I've chrono'd at many extreme temp spreads. I don't notice any change in the way the gun runs. I did notice differences in the 3N38 from shot to shot.

Kind of late on the reply, but I use a Burris fast fire on my open 38 super and it works great. Over 10,000 rounds through it and not a single problem. Had to locktight the screws in with red, the blue would work itself out, but holds zero great. I just use the 20 dollar burris dovetail mount and did not have to do anything to my slide, which had a commander rear sight prior with a Leupold red dot on a frame mount. Even with the stock burris mount, the sight is nice a low to the slide, only 1 or 2CM higher than standard limited sights. I took no time at all adjusting. Even when I took the sight off to change batteries, I had previously locktighted the dovetail mount, so it was very minimal re zero after reinstall. The only thing I will say about slide mounted optics is more muzzle flip and slower slide due to the weight on the back, but I went to a slightly faster powder to make the slide snappier and just got used to the flip. The dot still stays in the screen. Only when I was using 3N38 was it jumping out of the window.

I made a powder order with PV on may 20th, and got it in a week. I just think they are ignoring the primer questions since no one knows.

The interesting thing that I found was that the 3N38 would be still burning as the case was ejecting and would throw a nice flame out of the ejection port as well as the comp. I tried this with a 14lb 12.5 lb and 11 lb spring, so would not say that the timing of the gun was off causing the slide to come back early causing the fire plum from the ejection port. I do again working up loads and running a few hundred to see how they work helped me learn that so far I like the 7625 better and it makes major much easier. Still going to try N105 and 4756. Thanks for the help.

Thanks for the replies. Good to know I'm not the only one. I have an older comp, with only 3 top ports, 2 side ports and a standard cone barrel, no popple holes. I'm thinking because I don't have as much comp action, the extra gas is just not doing me any good except more straight back recoil into my hand. The dot tracking with the 7625 is much more stable and resets on each shot nicely. With 3N38, the dot would be all over the place no matter how I gripped the gun. I am going to try some 4756 as well to see how it goes. Shot the best match yet with the 7625. My scores were markedly better since I was not chasing the dot everywhere. Thanks again.

I am fairly new to open, been shooting it for about 6 months from limited. I did alot of research and ended up using 3N38. Loaded a bunch of loads and chrono'd and came up with 9.2 gr at 1.250 in a 38 SC with Federal SR primers behind MG 124 JHP. This load is right around 168 PF. Any load above 8.9 grs and the muzzle flip is very bad and recoil is harsh. I needed 9.4 to make 170PF and this is a brutal round. Everyone talked about how clean 3N38 was, but it leaves alot of unburnt powder and garbage in my mags and gun. Went through 2000 of these and then decided to tried a pound of 7625. Worked up a load and at 7.4 gr it makes 173PF and shoots remarkably softer than the 3N38 with much better muzzle flip and very little recoil. 7.9 gr makes 180PF and is still softer than VV, not to mention very clean. My gun is a wilson 38 super barrel and 3 port comp on a SVI frame. Question is, has anyone had this discovery and if so, why does everyone like 3N38. It barely makes major and from what I can see burns so slow that instead of working the comp better, it is just throwing alot of flame and more muzzle flip than the faster burning powders. I know I will hear, everyone's gun and comp is different, but this is a considerable difference.

Very true. Did not think about that. I have not gotten into 3 gun yet. Might have to get a speedsec or similar if I get into that.

I won't argue that it is possible, just that the way my 012's are setup I can beat the magwell all day long and it won't come out except for straight up with a para and sti platform. But my main point is that I do not see why people need to run with a gun in a race holster. If you really need to practice running through every stage before you shoot it, I would definitely take the advise of the previous poster and bag the gun. Secondly, having the weight of the gun in your holster while running could throw off you balance. Seated starts could bump the gun out of any holster if you are starting with the lock disengaged, as most competitors do with locked holsters. The lockable speedsec holster that you pull off when drawing with your fingers could be a good solution to that problem as well. I bought one for my father a couple of years ago and he seemed to like it for an STI edge. I guess my point is that i treat any loaded gun like a basket of eggs. Seated starts as well. If taking my time to safely get up from the seat adds a second to keep from putting holes in me, then so be it.

I just want to add to the sentiment against 012 holsters. I've been using 2, one for limited and one for open for 7 years, since they first came out. Have never had a dropped gun or one fall out when siting down or moving around. I do not run with a gun on my side ever. I have not seen a holster out there that I would run around with, except maybe a police duty holster. If an 012 is setup properly I do not see how it can come out except for running, because the gun is designed to come straight up and out. I have had one come from the factory with the washer for the tensioner in the wrong place so that it would not put the pressure on the trigger guard, but onto the metal frame. As an RO, I see alot of is people trying to be fast, cute or what ever and loading and making ready and then slamming the gun into the holster. Why all of the need for speed when holstering a weapon. I take extreme caution and time loading my gun, pushing the holster away from my body with my hip, so that the muzzle does not point at my foot or leg, and then slowly and carefully place the muzzle in first, while slowly pushing the trigger guard into the keeper and feeling a positive click, with my finger positively placed straight forward against the frame. After watching a friend shoot himself in the leg with a xd, by having a loose fitting shirt and jamming the gun into the holster at high speed, pulling the trigger with the shirt, I can not ever see a need for this practice. Even before I witnessed this, I took care and caution holstering gun, especially loaded with jacketed hollow points at 1400FPS. Can you say no foot left to even try to fix. The other thing I use taking my time, to get ready, is to calm myself and get the jitters out, and feel confident in my guns safety and position with my hand. I saw a competitor arguing with an RO a while back, as he holstered his open gun with the safety off, and with his hand still on the grip, put the safety on while in the holster. The competitor argued this was completely legal since his hand did not leave the gun, fearing a DQ. I hope he realized in his mind of how unsafe this is. I've seen what a minor load round nose 40 does to someone's leg. I do not want to ever see a major JHP does.

I have to agree with the usage or the U die for 40 as well. I ran a dillon sizer with my own brass shot from my gun, a para, and never had a problem for years. A friend got an xdm 40, I can't imagine that is chambered too tight, and he got a large order of once fired glock brass. The U die fixed all of the FTF problems and only 1 or 2 in a hundred will not fully seat in the case gauge, but will still fit in the chamber. I account this to the said problem above, that milling the plate would fix this problem as well. As far as being difficult to run on the press, I started using teflon powder and they resize and come out of the powder funnel like butter.

I use 9.2 of 3N38 with 124 JHP, wilson 38 super with 3 port comp. Runs nice and clean with montana gold bullets and that powder. There is always a little unburnt powder after a few hundred rounds, but gun and comp run clean, with liberal amounts of slide glide on everything. I have some 7625 to try but have not yet, so I can not give a comparison. 3N38 is a slower powder.

I just have to mirror extreme shot's idea with the teflon powder. I got it from spurlock tools and it works wonderfully. Just loaded 1000 40's and 1000 38SC and I use Lee Undersize dies on both. The 40's were terrible with the u die and bulged glock brass. I just sprinkled 2 to 3 pinches in the case feeder and tossed it around just to coat the bottom cases already in the feeder and it was like butter. It even helps great when the case comes out of the powder die. Using the U die, pulling it out of the powder die was terrible before. Now it's like butter. Once everything gets coated its great. I then went and ran 3 to 4 hundred through the guns to make sure everything went bang and had no problems at all. No residue in the barrel either. I was worried about that at first, but then realized metal bullets tearing through the barrel would take any melted on teflon right off. Definitely worth a try. I have not tried with 223's yet, but am interested to try. I used to use dillon case lub before and it was always a mess to work with. Thanks for great idea.

Well, thanks for the help everyone. Dawson hyperdrive extended firing pin did the trick. No more FTfire. Gun is now running great. Only thing I will add about the dawson pin is that it is a little soft on the tip, so I'll have to see how long it lasts. I was doing the "pencil" trick with a ball point pen and after about 30 to 40 hits, it put dents in the firing pin tip.

Yes primers are fully seated even 3 to 5 thousands into the primer cup. I also stated incorrectly, I am using federal rifle primers. Just got done shooting, factory box of remington 130s, not one light hit, actually primer flow with the factory ammo. 38sc FSR and 19.5 lb mainspring, some no matter how many time I hit it, I had to take it out and have it seat on the breach face at a different position to go off. Just got a dawson extended firing pin and installed it. It sends the pencil to the ceiling. I will try tomorrow and hopefully fix the problem. Either I have an extra duty strong primers or the old pin was just not hitting hard enough. WSP primers ran fine in it before, so I just think the light hammer and such is not enough for the rifle cups. I'll let you all know. I also just want to make sure, with the extended firing pin, with the hammer cocked, it is flush, with the hammer down, it will stick out a little. I see that this is fine and should cause no problem unless I try to chamber a round and then let the hammer down slowly by hand, it might set it off. I have no reason to do this, but definitely worth noting, or is this pin too long?

I have not tried it with factory 38 supers but thanks for reminding me. I will try that too.

Yes the hammer is lighter than the original. I checked for drag on the mainspring cap as well, and it seems smooth. The pencil test down the barrel send the pencil about 3 feet up. I also adjusted the post travel back a little more and will see if that was the problem. I did have it kind of tight. The 19.5 mainspring made no difference.

I am having the same problem as above and I have meticulously checked the primer seating. Just loaded a 100 tonight making sure everyone is seated properly as well as measuring how far the primer sits in the pocket. I am also using new starline 38SC, WSR primers. My small rifle primers will actually seat about 3 to 5 thousands below the rim. Even with checking every single round, I still get FTF, in about the same frequency. I recently changed all of the internal parts to SVI sear, hammer, trigger, disconnector, and EGW titanium hammer strut and mainspring cap. With the previous steel hammer strut, cap, etc I never had this problem with a 17lb mainspring. I even upped the mainspring to a 19.5 lb mainspring and new firing pin spring making sure the channel is clean and clear and no change. I am ordering an extended firing pin just to be sure. The fact that I did not have this problem before the new trigger group leads me to believe the hammer is not hitting the pin hard enough. When it FTF, I check the round and it is a light hit on the primer. A second hit on the same spot will send it on its way. If I rechamber and the pin does not hit the same spot, it will take another try to make it go. Any help with whether or not the extended firing pin will help, or any other suggestions welcome. Thanks

Am i correct in understanding that you put an SVI tri glide system in a P16-40? If so, I would like to know which trigger you used and how it fits? I have heard that the tri glide will not fit in a para body, but if you've gotten a way to make it work, i'd like to know. Thanks

the sti mag tubes for para work great, however there are some draw backs and pluses. The sti mag tubes are more expensive than the para replacement tubes and they hold less. The sti tubes are more tappered at the top than the factory para, there for they are easier to reload and lead to less fumbles when doing reloads. I use my sti mags with the dawson sti +1 basepads. If you use the +2 basepads, the mag exceeds the allowable length for limited division. With the +1 basepads, I am able to fit 18 rounds of 40 into the mag. With my para tubes and the sti para basepads, I am able to fit 22 into the mag. So if you shoot a para alot in competition, it is good to have both. I usually start the stage with the para mag in and if I have to do a reload, i use the sti, but if you fill it with 18, you will really have to slam it in there to get it to seat. I personally think that the metal and craftsmenship in the sti tubes are better but they do have drawbacks. Also, you have to be carefull with the sti tubes and the dawson basepads that you don't slam the mag into the chamber at slide lock. If you do you can over extend the mag into the gun and bend the ejector, because even with the dawson mag well, the basepad is not flush with the mag well, it hangs out a little. If you shoot ipsc and always do reloads with a round in the chamber, you do not have to worry about it. As far as springs and follower, since the sti tube is tappered more at the top, you have to use the sti springs and followers. They work very well. Some people use infinity springs and followers, they will also work, but it is all preference. Depending on the gun, some will lock open with the sti's and some won't. Usually after the follower and the spring break in, the gun will stop locking open with the sti tubes. Overall the best situation is to have a few of both. Each have their good and bad points. If you have anymore questions, pm me.

IMHO, green looks nicer on the gun, but if you want to discuss visual accuity, red is the best when shooting outdoors. Ranges with a tree or sky background, red will show up better because of the contrast between the red and the trees. I have not been to a range with red in the backdrop, but I'm shure they exist, so in that case green would be a better contrast. I find that the different colors are not any brighter than the other, it is simply a matter of contrast from the background. When shooting indoors, I find that the green actually shows up better against a black bull on a target. That is my 2 cents.

No the ice will not allow you to use grams, it will still only work with dawson base pads. I have both magwells for my p16-40 and the mags with the dawson pads actually fit tighter in the ice. Due to this I went back to the all metal magwell from dawson. I like it better.

I remembered what the tape is that I use. It is called Ultra-High Molecular Weight Polyethylene. This stuff is really neat, self lubricating, resists high impact, i.e. great for metals moving at high speeds. Here is a web site where you can get it. http://www.smallparts.com/HTML%20Product%2...20pages/HTT.htm 3m also makes some. here is the link to their site. http://products3.3m.com/catalog/us/en001/a...ler/output_html Hope this helps. This stuff works great for me.

i can't remeber right now where to buy this tape, but if i find it out, i'll let you know