Does DA accuracy…

[jmax]

In PPC shooting only Marksman rated shooters even try to shoot SA @ 50 yds. All the rest shoot DA at all ranges and one has 2 min 45 sec to fire 24 rounds, 6 sitting, 6 prone, 6 LH & 6 RH side barricade, sorry lads but this questions was answered more than 30 years ago, DA is more accurate than SA.

[Dogged]

In PPC shooting only Marksman rated shooters even try to shoot SA @ 50 yds. All the rest shoot DA at all ranges and one has 2 min 45 sec to fire 24 rounds, 6 sitting, 6 prone, 6 LH & 6 RH side barricade, sorry lads but this questions was answered more than 30 years ago, DA is more accurate than SA.

I would think that if you practiced it enough SA would be more accurate, but why would you practice SA when you shoot DA 100% of the time in USPSA shooting? So, you get better at what you practice...

Edited May 14, 2009 by Dogged

[R112mercer]

The answer in PPC was the surprise break of the DA trigger. This leads to better accuracy as you're less likely to anticipate the shot.

[Carmoney]

The answer in PPC was the surprise break of the DA trigger. This leads to better accuracy as you're less likely to anticipate the shot.

Bingo (again).

[Tom E]

The answer in PPC was the surprise break of the DA trigger. This leads to better accuracy as you're less likely to anticipate the shot.

Bingo (again).

So when your you're shooting off a bench, gun rested, testing loads for accuracy for instance, do you shoot DA or SA?

[Round_Gun_Shooter]

I just got a 617 (no trigger work) to practice with and was out shooting it this morning. Single action I was banging 10/10 on an 8” plate at 25 yards almost without effort. Double action I was hitting 6-9/10 on the same plate and I was concentrating hard. Weak and strong hand at closer distances the difference between single and double action accuracy were considerably more apparent. I normally shoot a Glock and am relatively new to revolvers. So I’m wondering, with a lot of practice does DA ever catch up with SA trigger pulls, or does DA only improve, but is never as good.

I shot bulls eye with my (now Mickey's) 617 shot high 260's into 270's and shot 90s in timed and rapid DAO So my answer is yes with practice you can

Edited May 16, 2009 by Round_Gun_Shooter

[Carmoney]

The answer in PPC was the surprise break of the DA trigger. This leads to better accuracy as you're less likely to anticipate the shot.

Bingo (again).

So when your you're shooting off a bench, gun rested, testing loads for accuracy for instance, do you shoot DA or SA?

I probably haven't shot more than a box of handgun ammo off the bench in my life. What's the point in that? I always shoot in whatever mode I'm going to be using in competition, and with a revolver that means double-action, and generally two hands unsupported.

[LPatterson]

The answer in PPC was the surprise break of the DA trigger. This leads to better accuracy as you're less likely to anticipate the shot.

Bingo (again).

So when your you're shooting off a bench, gun rested, testing loads for accuracy for instance, do you shoot DA or SA?

Since I had the 625 Carmonized I only shoot it DA, especially for load testing because the DA is lighter than SA IMHO. I am in the group that says just because it isn't broke doesn't mean that I can't make it better. I started out with 4" groups @ 25 yards and I now have a load that shoots 2" groups @ 25 yards. Is it just the load that is more accurate or is the extra 1000's of rounds of trigger time.

I can shoot the 617 more accurately in SA than DA however I did go 100 for 100 yesterday on a steel A zone @ 25 yards in DA.

[cas]

In PPC shooting only Marksman rated shooters even try to shoot SA @ 50 yds. All the rest shoot DA at all ranges and one has 2 min 45 sec to fire 24 rounds, 6 sitting, 6 prone, 6 LH & 6 RH side barricade, sorry lads but this questions was answered more than 30 years ago, DA is more accurate than SA.

There's a lot of silhouette shooters who think 50 yards is spitting distance and would argue that point.

Edited May 16, 2009 by cas

[Boats]

There is no mechanical reason double would not be as accurate as single action. When you add human performance it's another matter. Certainly some one who is skilled in one or the other is going to shoot better than the other guy.

However in precision shooting with pistols there is no serious double action work. Silhouette and Bullseye are are shot single action.

Boats

[R112mercer]

The answer in PPC was the surprise break of the DA trigger. This leads to better accuracy as you're less likely to anticipate the shot.

Bingo (again).

So when your you're shooting off a bench, gun rested, testing loads for accuracy for instance, do you shoot DA or SA?

The only real bench testing I do is in a Ransom Rest, to see if the load performs well in the gun, and the Ransom Rest doesn't care what mode you shoot in (I use double action, it's easier). After that I zero the way Mike does, with the actual hold & under actual conditions the gun will be used.

[R112mercer]

There is no mechanical reason double would not be as accurate as single action. When you add human performance it's another matter. Certainly some one who is skilled in one or the other is going to shoot better than the other guy.

However in precision shooting with pistols there is no serious double action work. Silhouette and Bullseye are are shot single action.

Boats

I shoot Silhouette, Bullseye, & PPC (as well as USPSA, Steel, ICORE, and some other disciplines I've probably forgot ) There are different reasons for using different types of shooting modes. I gave the reason for DA in PPC, and to elaborate you're firing multiple rounds at a target that's 3" tall & 2" wide (the "X" ring) with somewhat limited time to do it.

In Bullseye you have more time to shoot, but you must hold the gun in one hand, making double action a tad more difficult (although with some of the super light double actions we have on todays revolvers, I wonder what rapid fire would turn out like...) Also in Bullseye you were forced to shoot a 1911 in one stage for years, to make things easier guys shot the single action 1911 in both Centerfire & .45.

Silhouette differs because you once again have a little more time (2 minutes for 5 rounds). There's no reason why you couldn't shoot double action, but one of DA's advantages (being able to stay on target throughout the string) isn't that great here because your arms will get tired holding a heavy hunk of metal up for two minutes straight, causing unnecessary fatigue. Most of the guns used this day aren't even capable of DA (I shoot a T/C) and the revolver class is dominated by Single Actions, not for their triggers (though they are nice) but for their strength (to shoot loads strong & flat enough to take a ram @ 200 yards).

[Bubber]

There is no mechanical reason double would not be as accurate as single action. When you add human performance it's another matter. Certainly some one who is skilled in one or the other is going to shoot better than the other guy.

However in precision shooting with pistols there is no serious double action work. Silhouette and Bullseye are are shot single action.

Boats

I shoot Silhouette, Bullseye, & PPC (as well as USPSA, Steel, ICORE, and some other disciplines I've probably forgot ) There are different reasons for using different types of shooting modes. I gave the reason for DA in PPC, and to elaborate you're firing multiple rounds at a target that's 3" tall & 2" wide (the "X" ring) with somewhat limited time to do it.

In Bullseye you have more time to shoot, but you must hold the gun in one hand, making double action a tad more difficult (although with some of the super light double actions we have on todays revolvers, I wonder what rapid fire would turn out like...) Also in Bullseye you were forced to shoot a 1911 in one stage for years, to make things easier guys shot the single action 1911 in both Centerfire & .45.

Silhouette differs because you once again have a little more time (2 minutes for 5 rounds). There's no reason why you couldn't shoot double action, but one of DA's advantages (being able to stay on target throughout the string) isn't that great here because your arms will get tired holding a heavy hunk of metal up for two minutes straight, causing unnecessary fatigue. Most of the guns used this day aren't even capable of DA (I shoot a T/C) and the revolver class is dominated by Single Actions, not for their triggers (though they are nice) but for their strength (to shoot loads strong & flat enough to take a ram @ 200 yards).

In my way of thinking R112mercer hit it pretty well. It all is in what you deem accurate is ie; X ring, 10 ring, plates etc. We base our response in the game we play so an USPSA response does not carry the same as the Silhouette in their game. Take the human brain out of the mix and DA and SA are equal but SA is so much easier to break the shot IF.. you do your part and not anticipate. But in USPSA and ICORE and a few others time is a big factor much more than points like in bullseye or Silhouette. My opinion worht every cent paid, later rdd

[AzShooter]

When you learn to pull straight through the triigger without hesitatiion, just a nice smooth pull your accuracy will be better than single action or than staging the trigger.

Your spit times will be twice as fast and your hits will be closer together. Takes confidence to believe you can just pull the trigger and get your hits with spits in the .25 second or less instead of taking one second per split.

[Ron Ankeny]

Walt:

My frame of reference is years of shooting PPC, shooting the now defunct National Shooter's League, and shooting the early years of NRA Action Pistol. Of those games, the NSL had the toughest accuracy requirements and that game was dominated by DA revolver shooters, most of them coming from the higher ranks of PPC.

My UPSPA revolver experience is very limited. I stopped shooting revolvers (in fact stopped shooting handguns competitively) in the mid-1980's. I got back into shooting through the USPSA venue in 2000 after a 15 year lay off. I picked up USPSA with a single stack and for all purposes I learned to shoot all over again. In 2003 a friend of mine had a Smith 25-2 for sale cheap because it was in bad shape. I bought the gun and had a revolver smith buddy refurbish the gun. I dry fired the revolver for perhaps a month and ran maybe 1,000 rounds through it before shooting it in USPSA. I only shot it in USPSA for three months. The only match records I have are classifiers from the summer of 2003. Those scores are:

7/27/03 99-24 87.1710

7/21/03 99-46 78.6522

6/22/03 99-02 96.5893

6/15/03 99-49 62.8056

5/25/03 99-01 82.6516

5/25/03 99-56 81.6994

5/25/03 99-07 88.3590

5/25/03 99-15 99.8542

Maybe I am wrong, but I just don't think the average "C" class Limited shooter will best the hit factors that were used to calculate the percentages with the exception of 99-49. Yes, I know some of those revolver hit factors are lower than they should be for the percentage...but still...

[Boats]

Agree there are different sports so comparison of the human factor is not valid. I shoot both Silhouette and IDPA, for sure a Silhouette T/C Contender is not going to shoot an IDPA match. However in Silhouette we will frequently let someone shoot a non conforming gun in our matches. Often using double action revolvers, they are soon humbled by distance and small targets. See the same thing High Power Rifle Silhouette, Over the course guy shows up with his match rifle and is surprised by the difficulty. No doubt his rifle is accurate It's the sights and trigger holding them back.

Ransom rest all is equal, put the gun in somebody's hand long heavy pulls are a significant disadvantage when precision is required.

Boats

[Ron Ankeny]

...put the gun in somebody's hand long heavy pulls are a significant disadvantage when precision is required.

Doesn't some of that depend on whose hands are wrapped around the gun? Some of the most accurate standing without support two handed shooting I have ever seen was done with a double action revolver. Maybe all of those old wheel gun gurus are dead?

[Boats]

The old wheel gun guru, one of the best double action shooters ever was McGivern. In his book he goes into a lot of detail on double vs single action. He took some long shots too, single action.

Boats

[Allgoodhits]

In PPC shooting only Marksman rated shooters even try to shoot SA @ 50 yds. All the rest shoot DA at all ranges and one has 2 min 45 sec to fire 24 rounds, 6 sitting, 6 prone, 6 LH & 6 RH side barricade, sorry lads but this questions was answered more than 30 years ago, DA is more accurate than SA.

In PPC by far most of the top shooters shoot DA throughout the COF. This is in part, because some of the COF when only revos were used, required DA, therefore it is best to learn it. Once learned a proper DA grip and stroke renders no reason to shoot SA, even when permitted in PPC.

I believe a DA shooter will have a tendency to have a firmer grip of the firearm than will the SA shooter. With a DA revo or DA anything, "tighter the grip, the tighter the group".

I further believe that a DA trigger is easier for most people to learn to shoot if they are taught properly from the start. That being to discover the trigger placement and grip which enables the trigger to be pulled straight to the rear, without loosing critical sight alignment, then simply keep the trigger moving until the gun fires. The amount of pressure is that which keeps the trigger moving, eventually it will fire.....period.

Last, there is no better trigger puller than retired USMC Gunny Brian Zins. Nine time BE Champion at Perry. Yes, he shoots SA, but he has what is referred to as a roll trigger. In other words, you can feel the trigger moving. Keep it moving and the gun will fire. It is a similar concept to a DA, in that simply align the sights, put the sights in the desginated aiming area, then press the trigger to keep it moving and as Carmoney says, "bingo" a 10!

MJ

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