G-ManBart Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 I had a little inside info that Bully Barrels was working with a very well known shooter on a Smith Model 41 barrel designed for SC matches and they're finally here. Very light weight, compensated and machined so that a C-more bolts directly to them, with no mounting rail necessary....gets the dot down low and saves some weight. Mine is on the way, but there are a few left. Got to this link and click on the "Steel Challenge" tab and there are some pics: http://www.bullybarrel.ray-vin.com/frbarrels.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimmyZip Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 Friggin' awesome G-man! Are you an SC shooter? What ammo you figuring on running through that bad boy? What do you think that and the pistol would run you? In other words, what would the pistol cost ? ("cause I can add what they say they're charging to that) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-ManBart Posted April 26, 2009 Author Share Posted April 26, 2009 Friggin' awesome G-man! Are you an SC shooter? What ammo you figuring on running through that bad boy?What do you think that and the pistol would run you? In other words, what would the pistol cost ? ("cause I can add what they say they're charging to that) I actually haven't shot SC before, but I've always wanted to. One of the local clubs is getting ready to start shooting it so I figured I'd get my .22 setup ready. I'm planning on using just normal CCI SV but I don't really know what, if any, most SC shooters use. A new Model 41 is just under $1K (like $950) if you buy one off of Gun Broker or someplace big like Sportsman's Warehouse that has decent prices. I have seen someone selling like new demos for around $650 and you can usually pick up a clean used model for around $750 without much trouble. I watched patiently and managed to pick up a like new somewhat collectible model (1972 vintage) for $525 including shipping....that was a steal, but it happens. I also have a first year production (1957) model with a four digit serial number....it's been shot a bunch, but still looks good. The nice thing about M41s is that you can change the barrel in about ten seconds and most barrels don't require any fitting....if they do, it's very minor. If you decide to shop for one, let me know and I can check with a couple of 41 collectors I know that might have a nice, newer gun for a good price. R, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TG Reaper Posted May 8, 2009 Share Posted May 8, 2009 If you enjoy Steel Challenge and have participated, or want to participate, in the .22 division (the fastest division in the match), this is the ONLY way to go. Most everyone has subscribed to the opinion that whoever's gun runs for the entire match will finish at the top of the heap. While some of the conversions on the market can be tinkered with and fine tuned to be somewhat reliable, I haven't seen one that can be counted on when the chips are down. Ditto for the Rugers and Buckmarks, and all of the accessories that can be bolted on these glorfied plinkers. Minor fine tuning of the M41, and the installation of a Bully Steel Challenge barrel, solves those problems forever. I've shot every single conversion on the market, as well as every brand of .22 searching for the ultimate in reliability and accuracy for this match. If I combined the reliability of the best of the best that I've tried, nothing even comes close to this set-up. The M41 made the leap from Bullseye gun to semi-race gun when top shooters chose them, in modified form, for the Sportsman's Team Challenge. STC puts more demands on a rimfire than does bullseye, but not nearly as much as Steel Challenge. The advent of the Bully SC barrel completes the transformation of the M41. Find a quality used M41, buy an Bully SC barrel and a C-More Slide Ride, order a set of Herrett grips and a case of CCI Standard Velocity, and you will have assembled the ultimate steel target slaying bullet launcher ever devised! I promise it will become your favorite toy... Good Shootin', TGR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingman Posted May 11, 2009 Share Posted May 11, 2009 ok, that barrel with the right stuff would make a model 41 more pimp than a pardini. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-ManBart Posted May 12, 2009 Author Share Posted May 12, 2009 ok, that barrel with the right stuff would make a model 41 more pimp than a pardini. http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?...st&p=973326 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingman Posted May 12, 2009 Share Posted May 12, 2009 I am liking it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-ManBart Posted May 14, 2009 Author Share Posted May 14, 2009 I am liking it. Ran this little beast about ten times on plate rack today and it's just crazy good! I asked if a couple of the other instructors wanted to try it and they were like "nah, it's a .22".....what-ever! R, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigger hammer Posted May 16, 2009 Share Posted May 16, 2009 I apologize in advance for my ignorance but do these barrels need fitting or are they a drop-in replacement for the stock barrel? Lou Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-ManBart Posted May 16, 2009 Author Share Posted May 16, 2009 I apologize in advance for my ignorance but do these barrels need fitting or are they a drop-in replacement for the stock barrel? Lou They're pretty close to drop-in. Some guns might require a little bit of fitting in the lockup (same as a factory M41 barrel). Mine proved to be unusual in that I had to do a very slight bit of fitting at the front for the slide rails. I suspect that since the gun I used is a 1972 model there might be just a tiny bit of difference in the slide rails compared with newer guns. All I had to do was relieve the area where the slide rails meet the barrel....very easy. From what I've heard that's a first for these barrels, so I wouldn't worry about it too much. R, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itchy Posted May 16, 2009 Share Posted May 16, 2009 The Model 41 is a nice gun and I have a couple of friends who shoot them for Steel Challenge, but keep an open mind. As we all know, getting any gun to run 100% is more important than which model you use. The top two steel challenge rimfire open shooters use a Buckmark (Dave Sevigny) and a 1911 conversion (BJ Norris). Phil Strader who won the ironsight division at Piru last year had a 2011 (widebody) conversion and I believe Pete Milionis who won the the ironsight division in Florida this year shot a Ruger. So there you go, a wide variety of guns. Get something you like (or in my case what you can afford), get it fixed up so it runs 100% and practice! (if you can find ammo, nowadays). Seiichi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-ManBart Posted June 1, 2009 Author Share Posted June 1, 2009 Here's a video we did yesterday of my M41 with the Bully SC barrel shooting CCI SV....this is such a fun combo it's ridiculous! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cautery Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 Maybe it's just me.... But I don't understand what the Bully Barrel offers that hasn't been available in the Clark Custom Model 41 STC barrel for the last 10 years or so..... I guess a stainless barrel might be "neat" to have... My Clark STC barrel in blue matches my blue slide and frame... My Clark barrel has full length rails and can mount a C-More or an Aimpoint CompC3 (and basically anything else that can mount to a weaver rail). "Very light weight"? Is stainless steel measurably lighter than blued steel? Fitting? My Clark STC barrel required no fitting at all, and when mounted to the frame feels as if it were one piece with the frame... Reliability? I have shot my M41 in STC and Steel Challenge format... works great. As long as I do my job, it does its job. Accuracy? My Clark STC barrel (and every other one I have ever grouped) regularly shoots 1" or better at 50 yards (mine with CCI standard). Compensated? Can't imagine why you would want/need a comp... But, Clark would do it for you... They have machined/threaded them for suppressors, so I can't imagine that you couldn't put a comp on one... You can get the STC barrel (no top strap to avoid trapping cases). or the Bulls eye Optic barrel... Clark Custom Model 41 Barrels Am I missing something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigger hammer Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 Nothing wrong with a little competition to improve the breed. Lou Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlamoShooter Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 a special barrel for the 41 is not needed to excel at SC. that barrel does look great. Last year was the first year at Steel Challenge that I removed the extra barrel weight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cautery Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 a special barrel for the 41 is not needed to excel at SC. that barrel does look great. Last year was the first year at Steel Challenge that I removed the extra barrel weight Yep... I AM impressed with its looks... It's pretty... BTW, I was out practicing STC today... shooting the combo uprights with my Model 41 (Clark STC barrel)... I opened 45, 50, and 60yds with 2 mags... I used my third mag just playing around and closed 4 of 5 2-inchers at 60 yards... And "I" am not really even a "decent" pistol shooter... In this case, it's all about the bow and arrow... not the Indian. Can't wait for next week... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-ManBart Posted June 6, 2009 Author Share Posted June 6, 2009 Maybe it's just me.... But I don't understand what the Bully Barrel offers that hasn't been available in the Clark Custom Model 41 STC barrel for the last 10 years or so..... I guess a stainless barrel might be "neat" to have... My Clark STC barrel in blue matches my blue slide and frame...My Clark barrel has full length rails and can mount a C-More or an Aimpoint CompC3 (and basically anything else that can mount to a weaver rail). "Very light weight"? Is stainless steel measurably lighter than blued steel? Fitting? My Clark STC barrel required no fitting at all, and when mounted to the frame feels as if it were one piece with the frame... Reliability? I have shot my M41 in STC and Steel Challenge format... works great. As long as I do my job, it does its job. Accuracy? My Clark STC barrel (and every other one I have ever grouped) regularly shoots 1" or better at 50 yards (mine with CCI standard). Compensated? Can't imagine why you would want/need a comp... But, Clark would do it for you... They have machined/threaded them for suppressors, so I can't imagine that you couldn't put a comp on one... You can get the STC barrel (no top strap to avoid trapping cases). or the Bulls eye Optic barrel... Clark Custom Model 41 Barrels Am I missing something? I'm not sure you're missing anything, but the Bully does have some things that might appeal to folks over the Clark. If you want to use a C-More, it bolts directly to the Bully so you save the height and weight of the railway attachment so the dot closer to the bore. From what I can tell the Clark STI has got to be heavier since it's more massive. In a .22 I don't want or need any extra weight if I'm not shooting bullseye. I happen to really like the way my setup balances (37oz total) and transitions. I'd be curious to see what a 41 with the STC barrel on it would weigh. While stainless and carbon steel are going to weigh about the same (close enough it doesn't matter) there are some advantages to stainless from a machining standpoint according to many of the barrel experts out there and they seem to all say it's easier to get a smooth bore using stainless. Aside from that Ray makes all of his barrels out of stainless so it's a logical extension for him (and his barrels have done extremely well in serious bullseye competition). As far as the compensator they seem to go in and out of fashion in bullseye, but the folks that like them claim they make it easier to call the shot. It seems to make a difference when I've run it on a plate rack (compared with the standard barrel) and doesn't have any drawbacks that I can see. As far as accuracy goes I haven't shot mine at 50yds yet, but I've shot a lot of groups at 25yds that were under .75" (CCI SV) with nothing more than a rolled up towel as a makeshift rest for my wrists. I can say it's gone several hundred rounds at this point with no problems...runs like a top. I considered buying one of the Clark setups, and then one of Ray's that are similar (Weaver rails) but was actually getting ready to talk to Ray to see if he'd make a barrel that would allow the direct mounting of a C-More when someone beat me to it and saved me the trouble. So far I'm thrilled with how the combo balances, transitions, shoots etc and while it's a bit more expensive than the Clark I figure I'll be using it for many, many years and the difference just won't mean much over time. R, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cautery Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 Maybe it's just me.... But I don't understand what the Bully Barrel offers that hasn't been available in the Clark Custom Model 41 STC barrel for the last 10 years or so..... I guess a stainless barrel might be "neat" to have... My Clark STC barrel in blue matches my blue slide and frame...My Clark barrel has full length rails and can mount a C-More or an Aimpoint CompC3 (and basically anything else that can mount to a weaver rail). "Very light weight"? Is stainless steel measurably lighter than blued steel? Fitting? My Clark STC barrel required no fitting at all, and when mounted to the frame feels as if it were one piece with the frame... Reliability? I have shot my M41 in STC and Steel Challenge format... works great. As long as I do my job, it does its job. Accuracy? My Clark STC barrel (and every other one I have ever grouped) regularly shoots 1" or better at 50 yards (mine with CCI standard). Compensated? Can't imagine why you would want/need a comp... But, Clark would do it for you... They have machined/threaded them for suppressors, so I can't imagine that you couldn't put a comp on one... You can get the STC barrel (no top strap to avoid trapping cases). or the Bulls eye Optic barrel... Clark Custom Model 41 Barrels Am I missing something? I'm not sure you're missing anything, but the Bully does have some things that might appeal to folks over the Clark. If you want to use a C-More, it bolts directly to the Bully so you save the height and weight of the railway attachment so the dot closer to the bore. From what I can tell the Clark STI has got to be heavier since it's more massive. In a .22 I don't want or need any extra weight if I'm not shooting bullseye. I happen to really like the way my setup balances (37oz total) and transitions. I'd be curious to see what a 41 with the STC barrel on it would weigh. While stainless and carbon steel are going to weigh about the same (close enough it doesn't matter) there are some advantages to stainless from a machining standpoint according to many of the barrel experts out there and they seem to all say it's easier to get a smooth bore using stainless. Aside from that Ray makes all of his barrels out of stainless so it's a logical extension for him (and his barrels have done extremely well in serious bullseye competition). As far as the compensator they seem to go in and out of fashion in bullseye, but the folks that like them claim they make it easier to call the shot. It seems to make a difference when I've run it on a plate rack (compared with the standard barrel) and doesn't have any drawbacks that I can see. As far as accuracy goes I haven't shot mine at 50yds yet, but I've shot a lot of groups at 25yds that were under .75" (CCI SV) with nothing more than a rolled up towel as a makeshift rest for my wrists. I can say it's gone several hundred rounds at this point with no problems...runs like a top. I considered buying one of the Clark setups, and then one of Ray's that are similar (Weaver rails) but was actually getting ready to talk to Ray to see if he'd make a barrel that would allow the direct mounting of a C-More when someone beat me to it and saved me the trouble. So far I'm thrilled with how the combo balances, transitions, shoots etc and while it's a bit more expensive than the Clark I figure I'll be using it for many, many years and the difference just won't mean much over time. R, You know... I DID miss something... I was looking at the OTHER barrels... I apparently missed the "Steel Challenge" barrel... Ok... I see the appeal... It is definitely cool looking with the flutes and all... If they are 11.6 ounces, then they are probably somewhere around 4.5 ounces or so lighter... Being able to mount the slide ride vs. the railway... a tiny bit less weight and something like a 1/16 to 3/32" difference in height... not a lot, but measurable. I'm a relative newcomer to steel challenge, so my 41 is capable of way fater transitions than I can master... I've used mine mostly for Team Challenge in the Pistol and Combo events... (12ea, 4" plates at 20yds, and 12 ea. 6" plates at 25yds for Pistol, and anything from a 4" close plate, to a 2" shrouded circle at 60 yards for combo... I've actually seen one of Renee's team mates down multiple 3" shrouded circles at 75 yards)... anyway... so speed is not REALLY an issue like it is in Steel Challenge... Accuracy is the priority in STC... I KNOW Ray is trying to be conservative on his site with the accuracy examples on the SC barrel, but I'd like to know what SC barrels are actually getting... Clark guarantees 1-5/8" at 50 yards with decent ammo... I do a LOT of rimfire ammo testing CCI SV is a very subjective standard. One lot may shoot better than Green Tag if you are lucky, and then some lots shoot groups like a shotgun... I have a practice lot right now, that simply will not shoot less than a 2.5" group at 100 yds from any rifle... Shoots pretty well from my pistol... To compare accuracy from barrel line to barrel line, you need to be able to compare the same brand/lot of ammo, same distance, same procedure, weather, et al... I'd actually like to do a head to head test using the same lot of CCI, say Lapua Standard +, and like Wolf Match Target... not high dollar stuff like TENEX... good stuff that is consistent and available to the average Joe with an average budget... and then write an article on it. I'm intrigued with this barrel now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-ManBart Posted June 7, 2009 Author Share Posted June 7, 2009 I KNOW Ray is trying to be conservative on his site with the accuracy examples on the SC barrel, but I'd like to know what SC barrels are actually getting... Clark guarantees 1-5/8" at 50 yards with decent ammo... I do a LOT of rimfire ammo testing CCI SV is a very subjective standard. One lot may shoot better than Green Tag if you are lucky, and then some lots shoot groups like a shotgun... I have a practice lot right now, that simply will not shoot less than a 2.5" group at 100 yds from any rifle... Shoots pretty well from my pistol... To compare accuracy from barrel line to barrel line, you need to be able to compare the same brand/lot of ammo, same distance, same procedure, weather, et al... I'd actually like to do a head to head test using the same lot of CCI, say Lapua Standard +, and like Wolf Match Target... not high dollar stuff like TENEX... good stuff that is consistent and available to the average Joe with an average budget... and then write an article on it. I'm intrigued with this barrel now... I'm with you 100%. I've actually learned a LOT about CCI SV over on the Rimfirecentral website that explains the lot to lot variation. I know my father has seen the same results out of his Win 52C and Smith M41, but it turns out he's been buying it in the paper boxes and the latest lot was one produced in the Federal factory which is loaded to a slightly higher velocity with a different bullet. So far I've had no problem getting .75" groups out of the SC barrel using CCI SV and I've just started testing some SK Jagd Standard Plus and Eley Sport. I've got some higher dollar ammo set aside as well (SK Jagd Match and two RWS loads). At this point I'll need to come up with a better rest to really come up with some measurable results. As you said, SC isn't about absolute accuracy so CCI SV is more than good enough. I've even had good initial results with Eley Sport which is pretty inexpensive (made by Aguilla) and seems to be reliable. More to follow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwx40x40 Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 GMan and other 41 shooters using CCI SV. Has anyone ever had any problems with reliability with this load. My 41 sometimes has a failure to extract with this load. Runs 100% with CCI Mini Mag and Rem Golden Bullet( when they go off). I have heard mention of Wolff Spring kits for 41 that would allow tuning for different loads in 41 . Could it be that I need a lighter recoil spring to run SV ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 GMan and other 41 shooters using CCI SV. Has anyone ever had any problems with reliability with this load. My 41 sometimes has a failure to extract with this load. Runs 100% with CCI Mini Mag and Rem Golden Bullet( when they go off). I have heard mention of Wolff Spring kits for 41 that would allow tuning for different loads in 41 . Could it be that I need a lighter recoil spring to run SV ? With this same barrel?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-ManBart Posted June 7, 2009 Author Share Posted June 7, 2009 GMan and other 41 shooters using CCI SV. Has anyone ever had any problems with reliability with this load. My 41 sometimes has a failure to extract with this load. Runs 100% with CCI Mini Mag and Rem Golden Bullet( when they go off). I have heard mention of Wolff Spring kits for 41 that would allow tuning for different loads in 41 . Could it be that I need a lighter recoil spring to run SV ? Yep, certain vintages of M41s tend to need a step down in recoil spring to run reliably with standard velocity ammo. The Wolff kit should solve the problem. It has 6, 6.5 and 7llb springs in it and you start with the heaviest and work down until it runs. I'm not really sure what the factory spring is supposed to be, but both of mine have run with SV just fine, as did my father's. The kit also comes with three firing pin springs. The stock number is 13171. R, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullzeye Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 Those are really nice barrels. Too bad they are sold out right now. I wonder when the next batch will be available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-ManBart Posted June 7, 2009 Author Share Posted June 7, 2009 Those are really nice barrels. Too bad they are sold out right now. I wonder when the next batch will be available. Wow, that didn't take too long....especially considering that it's really a niche barrel on the spendy side. I suspect future batches will sell quickly. I'd send Ray an e-mail and ask to be notified when he's listing a new batch so you can get the first look at the targets. He showed me how to look at the test targets from the barrels that are already sold and some of them were absolutely off-the-charts good....one hole. I suspect most of those were 1:16 twist, but I'm not certain. The 1:8 (like mine) are very good but some of the 1:16 are just spectacular. R, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TG Reaper Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 (edited) For those of you waiting for Ray's next run of barrels, he has just completed and began shipping his latest run of SC barrels, and they are 1:16 twist barrels. I know a lot of you shoot a lot of rimfire, but unless you are shooting a lot of STEEL CHALLENGE, you are not truly testing the limits of your rimfire rig (yes, even if you are shooting STC). The indexing in Steel Challenge imparts different moments upon the action while it is cycling that bullseye, STC shooters, and general plinkers don't subject their pistols to. There are many good .22's on the market, but when they are subjected to this type of shooting, they almost all will fail, usually at a very critical time (like while you are in Piru). I've shot several hundred thousand rounds through a variety of the best .22's and .22 1911 conversions. Until we lightened up the barrel of the M41 and balanced it for shooting steel, chambered that barrel for maximum reliability, and slammed a C-More as low as it could go (eliminating mounts in the process) to minimize bore axis to optic distance, we hadn't yet discovered what I consider to be the absolute best set-up for shooting the fastest division of Steel Challenge. I have to credit Doug Koenig and Randy Hollowbush for pioneering M41 mods for use at STC and for planting the seed for the barrels Ray now produces. Two of the perennial top SC finishers mentioned here have seen, handled and shot the M41/Bully Barrel set-up and acknowledged that it is superior. Sponsor committments are temporarily preventing them from making an immediate change. As we begin preparation for this years World Speed Shooting Championships, several other top shooters are sporting this set up. While I haven't shot any Tenex out of my Bully's, Ray has through barrels in the test fixture and the results are what you would expect when compared to CCI SV. All of my Bully's shoot under an inch at 25 yards with CCI SV, and I've shot smaller groups with some of the other premium match ammo available. The problem is reliability. The CCI SV out of the M41 is the most consistently accurate and reliable load for the money. A click instead of a bang in the middle of a SC stage is a very loud, and unwelcome, noise. By the way, if you are a bullseye or limited shooter and dig carbide lamps to blacken your sights, Ray also makes a very trick carbide lamp. It's been years since I used a lamp, since a can of sight black in the range bag is easier than dragging around calcium carbide and finding water for your lamp. I used the lamp to blackend the sights on my limited gun today while practicing SC, and the improvement was immediately noticeable. I'll be going "old school" from now on when it comes to blackening my sights. Ray sells these on his web site. Some have questioned the need for a compensator on a .22. An optic on a .22 exacerbates dot rise/oscillation during recoil, even on a factory barreled M41. A compensated Bully barrel does not leave a 12" plate at 25 yards. Unscrew the comp and make the same shot and the dot will lift off of the target. As strange as it sounds, the compensator really helps. This set-up has become my absolute favorite pistol to shoot, and will probably be responsible for 90% of my open practice for this year's Steel Challenge. I've put 6 of them together, and have two more on the way. If you shoot one, you will understand why! Good Shootin', TGR Edited June 10, 2009 by TG Reaper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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