PPC Eljay Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 Ben, Just bustin, That run was smokin, I use a calendar to time my 120s, tho, you did flinch on your start on the advancing string Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn Knight Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 even if he flinched he was still relaxed at the beep... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PPC Eljay Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 C 7. The competitor’s physical position may not be changed before the firing signal once the shooter’s ready position is assumed and the “Stand-By” command has been given, unless specified by the CoF. Now, since he is running himself and no "Stand-By" was given ok, But under "strict" rules flinching between Stand-by and beep is a PE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lugnut Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 (edited) He gets a P.E. for every stage that he started with hands "not" relaxed at sides. Yeah- that alone would shave like 40 seconds off MY classifier for sure and then I could do those times too. I wish!!! Edited May 5, 2009 by lugnut Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 When you are done giving him his PE for creeping (yeah, I saw it too), how about asking Ben how he manages to still turn in a score that is half your time !! Those that want to add in PE's for hand position. Well, go ahead. Guess what...he still is beating your score ! Maybe ask him some questions that might help your shooting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lugnut Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 Maybe ask him some questions that might help your shooting? That is a great point. But it is so amazing I wouldn't know what to ask. I just don't even know that my eyes could even be that fast.... plus I've seen his thread... he practices harder than anyone I know. It very humbling to watch for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Di Vita Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 he practices harder than anyone I know Funny how that works isn't it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkeeler Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 C 7. The competitor’s physical position may not be changedbefore the firing signal once the shooter’s ready position is assumed and the “Stand-By” command has been given, unless specified by the CoF. Now, since he is running himself and no "Stand-By" was given ok, But under "strict" rules flinching between Stand-by and beep is a PE BK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PPC Eljay Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 Oh, I'm sorry if the rules bore you, just shoot any way you want, the SOs will take care of the rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkeeler Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 (edited) Oh, I'm sorry if the rules bore you, just shoot any way you want, the SOs will take care of the rest. Ummm I don't see any video of you any where. His video is not taken from an actual IDPA match. So who gives a !@#$ if he creeped a little. I am sure he was aware of it. So did he actually gain an advantage? NO. Well this is why...........................never mind not worth it. BK Edited May 6, 2009 by bkeeler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ima45dv8 Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 AttitudePlease be polite. Or if not polite, at least respectful. No bickering. Regardless of the subject matter. Antagonistic, offensive, or quarrelsome tones are not acceptable. Play nice or play elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkeeler Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 AttitudePlease be polite. Or if not polite, at least respectful. No bickering. Regardless of the subject matter. Antagonistic, offensive, or quarrelsome tones are not acceptable. Play nice or play elsewhere. BK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Stoeger Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 Maybe ask him some questions that might help your shooting? Tearing down my score is WAY easier than building up your score. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashman627 Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 Maybe ask him some questions that might help your shooting? Tearing down my score is WAY easier than building up your score. I thought it was fantastic and i just enjoyed watching great speed and accuracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sigfla Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 Great run Ben. I have been working on my first shot from the holster lately as I have been a little off as of late. I am pulling around 1.5 - 2 for an accurate aimed shot at 7 yds from the beep when I bring my weak hand up high into my chest to mate with my strong hand. This allows me to pick up my front sight earlier and get a good shot off. I noticed you seemed to bring your strong and weak hands together much lower. Do you gain any advantage in speed doing this? I never timed myself from the holster going low like that but I am sure I was faster just much less accurate. I only ask b/c I am looking for a consistent fast technique that I can replicate with some level of accuracy. My high hand marriage is working well b/c I try to do everything at that level, reloads, etc.... However I do feel I should be faster on the draw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Stoeger Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 Great run Ben. I have been working on my first shot from the holster lately as I have been a little off as of late. I am pulling around 1.5 - 2 for an accurate aimed shot at 7 yds from the beep when I bring my weak hand up high into my chest to mate with my strong hand. This allows me to pick up my front sight earlier and get a good shot off. I noticed you seemed to bring your strong and weak hands together much lower. Do you gain any advantage in speed doing this?I never timed myself from the holster going low like that but I am sure I was faster just much less accurate. I only ask b/c I am looking for a consistent fast technique that I can replicate with some level of accuracy. My high hand marriage is working well b/c I try to do everything at that level, reloads, etc.... However I do feel I should be faster on the draw. I bet if you look at your draw on video you will see that your left hand goes high on your chest, then swoops back down under the gun, then comes back up while getting the grip. I think the sooner you get that grip the better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ankeny Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 (edited) Play nice or play elsewhere. Exactly. I am going to go out on a limb here. When this video was posted on the other forum a question of rules was brought up. Another poster questioned safe angles of fire on a turning draw. In my infinite ignorance, I asked about a DQ or not just to get closure and to learn something. I was vaguely familiar with IDPA not having a strict 180 rule, but I had no clue as to what would define safe angles of fire in a static course where the "firing line" is parallel to the berm. Oh how I regret showing my ignorance when the attitudes started flying. I have not returned to that forum, and even though I should never say never, I don't intend to return to that forum...ever. To suggest that I (or another shooter) would rather drag someone down to a lower level than to elevate themselves to a higher level just by asking a rules related question is one hell of a stretch. In fact, it is a stretch that I deeply resent. I would much rather someone just call me a dumb ass and suggest I go download a rulebook. There aren't many places left to play... let's not take a dump in Brian's front yard. Edited May 7, 2009 by Ron Ankeny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashman627 Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 Play nice or play elsewhere. Exactly. I am going to go out on a limb here. When this video was posted on the other forum a question of rules was brought up. Another poster questioned safe angles of fire on a turning draw. In my infinite ignorance, I asked about a DQ or not just to get closure and to learn something. I was vaguely familiar with IDPA not having a strict 180 rule, but I had no clue as to what would define safe angles of fire in a static course where the "firing line" is parallel to the berm. Oh how I regret showing my ignorance when the attitudes started flying. I have not returned to that forum, and even though I should never say never, I don't intend to return to that forum...ever. To suggest that I (or another shooter) would rather drag someone down to a lower level than to elevate themselves to a higher level just by asking a rules related question is one hell of a stretch. In fact, it is a stretch that I deeply resent. I would much rather someone just call me a dumb ass and suggest I go download a rulebook. There aren't many places left to play... let's not take a dump in Brian's front yard. I still really enjoyed watching a great performance, thanks for sharing, Ashley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 Ron, I think you were fine...there and here. No big deal. I got that you were inquiring about the rule...and if those other guys didn't, who cares. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 I think the sooner you get that grip the better. I agree. I've always preached to take the support hand toward the holster. Most ignored that in favor of the "go to the place where you clap your hands in front of your chest" line of thinking. To me, it makes sense to get the other hand on the gun as soon as possible. One, you have more time to correct a flubbed grip. Two, once you are done getting that hand on there...you are done with that...you are free to move on to the next thing with whatever amount of attention that might have been sucking up. This allows me to pick up my front sight earlier and get a good shot off. You can still take the gun up, then press it out through your visual cone. That doesn't have to change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ihatepickles Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 Ron, I think you were fine...there and here. No big deal. I got that you were inquiring about the rule...and if those other guys didn't, who cares. Compared to most of the exchanges I see on GT I think they actually liked Ron. Those guys are... special. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PPC Eljay Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 (edited) As I stated in post #26 I first brought up the "hands relaxed" thing as a goof not tring to bring Ben down. The flinch was also in the same vein. But then Shawn Knight stated that if you flinch between stand-by and beep and return to hands relaxed it's ok, I pasted the section from the ruld book to show it's not ok, still not tring to shed a bad light on Ben's preformance. Then BK starts in (BK I watched your video, you too, like Ben are much better than me, so there is no reason for me to post a video). Looking at the facts and rules is a by-product of being an SO/MD, so, sorry if that is considered not "playing nice". Ben sorry to drift your thread, again nice shooting. Edited May 7, 2009 by PPC Eljay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PPC Eljay Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 Is there a "record" for best score on an IDPA classifier?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Nesbitt Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 Ben, great job on the classifier. Thanks for sharing with us. This discussion has brought some questions to me. What is "hands naturally at your side"? I stood up in front of the full length mirror and relaxed my arms. My hands ended up just about where Ben's are. My elbows are slightly bent and my hands are in front of the front pocket of my jeans. To put my hands on the seams of my pants would be un-natural. Are some of you giving PE's for a flinch if the shooter has returned to the start position before the beep? Or do you restart the commands? We've all seen it, a timer on the next bay or a shot fired on another bay. I've never seen a PE given for this and just wondered what everybody else was doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sigfla Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 Ben, great job on the classifier. Thanks for sharing with us. This discussion has brought some questions to me. What is "hands naturally at your side"? I stood up in front of the full length mirror and relaxed my arms. My hands ended up just about where Ben's are. My elbows are slightly bent and my hands are in front of the front pocket of my jeans. To put my hands on the seams of my pants would be un-natural. Are some of you giving PE's for a flinch if the shooter has returned to the start position before the beep? Or do you restart the commands? We've all seen it, a timer on the next bay or a shot fired on another bay. I've never seen a PE given for this and just wondered what everybody else was doing. Someone gives me a PE for that and I will raise hell. I have both seen and been the brunt of many bad calls lately. In the interest of sportsmanship I have seen most shooters simply accept it and move on with their day. RO's and SO's are simply volunteers and they interpret the rules sometimes in their own manner. I can read the book and birddog someone to death if I want to but as long as they aren't doing somehting unsafe give the benefit of the doubt to the shooter. It is impossible on video to tell if Ben flinched at all due to the delay. I don't believe he did anyway. In fact, I would argue that flinches are ok within the rules and that the intent of the rule was to prohibit jumping the buzzer. Sometimes you simply have to know when to interpret things stictly and sometimes you have to have some common sense in why the rule is there in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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