sub 60 classifier

[PPC Eljay]

Ben, Just bustin, That run was smokin, I use a calendar to time my 120s, tho, you did flinch on your start on the advancing string

[Shawn Knight]

even if he flinched he was still relaxed at the beep...

[PPC Eljay]

C 7. The competitor’s physical position may not be changed

before the firing signal once the shooter’s ready position is

assumed and the “Stand-By” command has been given, unless

specified by the CoF.

Now, since he is running himself and no "Stand-By" was given ok, But under "strict" rules flinching between Stand-by and beep is a PE

[lugnut]

He gets a P.E. for every stage that he started with hands "not" relaxed at sides.

Yeah- that alone would shave like 40 seconds off MY classifier for sure and then I could do those times too. I wish!!!

Edited May 5, 2009 by lugnut

[Flexmoney]

When you are done giving him his PE for creeping (yeah, I saw it too), how about asking Ben how he manages to still turn in a score that is half your time !!

Those that want to add in PE's for hand position. Well, go ahead. Guess what...he still is beating your score !

Maybe ask him some questions that might help your shooting?

[lugnut]

Maybe ask him some questions that might help your shooting?

That is a great point. But it is so amazing I wouldn't know what to ask. I just don't even know that my eyes could even be that fast.... plus I've seen his thread... he practices harder than anyone I know. It very humbling to watch for sure.

[Jake Di Vita]

he practices harder than anyone I know

Funny how that works isn't it.

[bkeeler]

C 7. The competitor’s physical position may not be changed

before the firing signal once the shooter’s ready position is

assumed and the “Stand-By” command has been given, unless

specified by the CoF.

Now, since he is running himself and no "Stand-By" was given ok, But under "strict" rules flinching between Stand-by and beep is a PE

BK

[PPC Eljay]

Oh, I'm sorry if the rules bore you, just shoot any way you want, the SOs will take care of the rest.

[bkeeler]

Oh, I'm sorry if the rules bore you, just shoot any way you want, the SOs will take care of the rest.

Ummm I don't see any video of you any where.

His video is not taken from an actual IDPA match. So who gives a !@#$ if he creeped a little. I am sure he was aware of it. So did he actually gain an advantage? NO.

Well this is why...........................never mind not worth it.

BK

Edited May 6, 2009 by bkeeler

[ima45dv8]

Attitude

Please be polite. Or if not polite, at least respectful.

No bickering. Regardless of the subject matter.

Antagonistic, offensive, or quarrelsome tones are not acceptable.

Play nice or play elsewhere.

[bkeeler]

Attitude

Please be polite. Or if not polite, at least respectful.

No bickering. Regardless of the subject matter.

Antagonistic, offensive, or quarrelsome tones are not acceptable.

Play nice or play elsewhere.

BK

[Ben Stoeger]

Maybe ask him some questions that might help your shooting?

Tearing down my score is WAY easier than building up your score.

[ashman627]

Maybe ask him some questions that might help your shooting?

Tearing down my score is WAY easier than building up your score.

I thought it was fantastic and i just enjoyed watching great speed and accuracy.

[sigfla]

Great run Ben. I have been working on my first shot from the holster lately as I have been a little off as of late. I am pulling around 1.5 - 2 for an accurate aimed shot at 7 yds from the beep when I bring my weak hand up high into my chest to mate with my strong hand. This allows me to pick up my front sight earlier and get a good shot off. I noticed you seemed to bring your strong and weak hands together much lower. Do you gain any advantage in speed doing this?

I never timed myself from the holster going low like that but I am sure I was faster just much less accurate. I only ask b/c I am looking for a consistent fast technique that I can replicate with some level of accuracy. My high hand marriage is working well b/c I try to do everything at that level, reloads, etc.... However I do feel I should be faster on the draw.

[Ben Stoeger]

Great run Ben. I have been working on my first shot from the holster lately as I have been a little off as of late. I am pulling around 1.5 - 2 for an accurate aimed shot at 7 yds from the beep when I bring my weak hand up high into my chest to mate with my strong hand. This allows me to pick up my front sight earlier and get a good shot off. I noticed you seemed to bring your strong and weak hands together much lower. Do you gain any advantage in speed doing this?

I never timed myself from the holster going low like that but I am sure I was faster just much less accurate. I only ask b/c I am looking for a consistent fast technique that I can replicate with some level of accuracy. My high hand marriage is working well b/c I try to do everything at that level, reloads, etc.... However I do feel I should be faster on the draw.

I bet if you look at your draw on video you will see that your left hand goes high on your chest, then swoops back down under the gun, then comes back up while getting the grip. I think the sooner you get that grip the better.

[Ron Ankeny]

Play nice or play elsewhere.

Exactly. I am going to go out on a limb here. When this video was posted on the other forum a question of rules was brought up. Another poster questioned safe angles of fire on a turning draw. In my infinite ignorance, I asked about a DQ or not just to get closure and to learn something. I was vaguely familiar with IDPA not having a strict 180 rule, but I had no clue as to what would define safe angles of fire in a static course where the "firing line" is parallel to the berm. Oh how I regret showing my ignorance when the attitudes started flying. I have not returned to that forum, and even though I should never say never, I don't intend to return to that forum...ever.

To suggest that I (or another shooter) would rather drag someone down to a lower level than to elevate themselves to a higher level just by asking a rules related question is one hell of a stretch. In fact, it is a stretch that I deeply resent. I would much rather someone just call me a dumb ass and suggest I go download a rulebook. There aren't many places left to play... let's not take a dump in Brian's front yard.

Edited May 7, 2009 by Ron Ankeny

[ashman627]

Play nice or play elsewhere.

Exactly. I am going to go out on a limb here. When this video was posted on the other forum a question of rules was brought up. Another poster questioned safe angles of fire on a turning draw. In my infinite ignorance, I asked about a DQ or not just to get closure and to learn something. I was vaguely familiar with IDPA not having a strict 180 rule, but I had no clue as to what would define safe angles of fire in a static course where the "firing line" is parallel to the berm. Oh how I regret showing my ignorance when the attitudes started flying. I have not returned to that forum, and even though I should never say never, I don't intend to return to that forum...ever.

To suggest that I (or another shooter) would rather drag someone down to a lower level than to elevate themselves to a higher level just by asking a rules related question is one hell of a stretch. In fact, it is a stretch that I deeply resent. I would much rather someone just call me a dumb ass and suggest I go download a rulebook. There aren't many places left to play... let's not take a dump in Brian's front yard.

I still really enjoyed watching a great performance,

thanks for sharing,

Ashley

[Flexmoney]

Ron, I think you were fine...there and here. No big deal. I got that you were inquiring about the rule...and if those other guys didn't, who cares.

[Flexmoney]

I think the sooner you get that grip the better.

I agree.

I've always preached to take the support hand toward the holster. Most ignored that in favor of the "go to the place where you clap your hands in front of your chest" line of thinking.

To me, it makes sense to get the other hand on the gun as soon as possible. One, you have more time to correct a flubbed grip. Two, once you are done getting that hand on there...you are done with that...you are free to move on to the next thing with whatever amount of attention that might have been sucking up.

This allows me to pick up my front sight earlier and get a good shot off.

You can still take the gun up, then press it out through your visual cone. That doesn't have to change.

[ihatepickles]

Ron, I think you were fine...there and here. No big deal. I got that you were inquiring about the rule...and if those other guys didn't, who cares.

Compared to most of the exchanges I see on GT I think they actually liked Ron. Those guys are... special.

[PPC Eljay]

As I stated in post #26 I first brought up the "hands relaxed" thing as a goof not tring to bring Ben down. The flinch was also in the same vein. But then Shawn Knight stated that if you flinch between stand-by and beep and return to hands relaxed it's ok, I pasted the section from the ruld book to show it's not ok, still not tring to shed a bad light on Ben's preformance. Then BK starts in (BK I watched your video, you too, like Ben are much better than me, so there is no reason for me to post a video). Looking at the facts and rules is a by-product of being an SO/MD, so, sorry if that is considered not "playing nice". Ben sorry to drift your thread, again nice shooting.

Edited May 7, 2009 by PPC Eljay

[PPC Eljay]

Is there a "record" for best score on an IDPA classifier??

[Bill Nesbitt]

Ben, great job on the classifier. Thanks for sharing with us.

This discussion has brought some questions to me. What is "hands naturally at your side"? I stood up in front of the full length mirror and relaxed my arms. My hands ended up just about where Ben's are. My elbows are slightly bent and my hands are in front of the front pocket of my jeans. To put my hands on the seams of my pants would be un-natural.

Are some of you giving PE's for a flinch if the shooter has returned to the start position before the beep? Or do you restart the commands? We've all seen it, a timer on the next bay or a shot fired on another bay. I've never seen a PE given for this and just wondered what everybody else was doing.

[sigfla]

Ben, great job on the classifier. Thanks for sharing with us.

This discussion has brought some questions to me. What is "hands naturally at your side"? I stood up in front of the full length mirror and relaxed my arms. My hands ended up just about where Ben's are. My elbows are slightly bent and my hands are in front of the front pocket of my jeans. To put my hands on the seams of my pants would be un-natural.

Are some of you giving PE's for a flinch if the shooter has returned to the start position before the beep? Or do you restart the commands? We've all seen it, a timer on the next bay or a shot fired on another bay. I've never seen a PE given for this and just wondered what everybody else was doing.

Someone gives me a PE for that and I will raise hell. I have both seen and been the brunt of many bad calls lately. In the interest of sportsmanship I have seen most shooters simply accept it and move on with their day.

RO's and SO's are simply volunteers and they interpret the rules sometimes in their own manner. I can read the book and birddog someone to death if I want to but as long as they aren't doing somehting unsafe give the benefit of the doubt to the shooter. It is impossible on video to tell if Ben flinched at all due to the delay. I don't believe he did anyway.

In fact, I would argue that flinches are ok within the rules and that the intent of the rule was to prohibit jumping the buzzer. Sometimes you simply have to know when to interpret things stictly and sometimes you have to have some common sense in why the rule is there in the first place.