Fullauto_Shooter Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 (edited) I've talked to two shooters recently who told me they run 170mm Grams springs in both their 170mm AND their 140mm mags. Both said they could still get full number of rounds in the 140mm mags, but the extra length on the spring made the mags even more reliable. I tried it on one mag and it seemed to work fine. Anyone else out there tried this? If so, please discuss results and opinions. Edited March 10, 2009 by Fullauto_Shooter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-ManBart Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 I've talked to two shooters recently who told me they run 170mm Grams springs in both their 170mm AND their 140mm mags. Both said they could still get full number of rounds in the 140mm mags, but the extra length on the spring made the mags even more reliable. I tried it on one mag and it seemed to work fine.Anyone else out there tried this? If so, please discuss results and opinions. .40 or 9/38S? I have several 140mm STI mags that I run with Dawson +1s and 13-coil Grams springs (bought some Bolen 11 and 13-coils to try in them as well). I get 23rds in them and they run absolutely perfectly. Any more than that and you start to get the follower rolling on it's side below the ribs so it's not worth messing with. These mags work great and even the last couple of rounds really pop up nicely so they should be more reliable than an 11-coil that can't push the stack up quite so hard. SV mags are a different story and I get 24 in them using 11-coil springs, Bolen followers and Dawson SNL's and the follower won't roll over and get jammed up. I think I tried them once with a 13-coil and while they worked, I lost a round of capacity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steel1212 Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 (edited) I've talked to two shooters recently who told me they run 170mm Grams springs in both their 170mm AND their 140mm mags. Both said they could still get full number of rounds in the 140mm mags, but the extra length on the spring made the mags even more reliable. I tried it on one mag and it seemed to work fine.Anyone else out there tried this? If so, please discuss results and opinions. I don't see how a 13 coil spring will allow the same amount of rounds as a 11 coil? I do run 140mm springs in my 126mm IDPA mags but they just need to hold 10 rounds and I like to have them lock back and that seems to help out there. Edited March 10, 2009 by steel1212 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSMITH Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 There is no reason to do so if you are running a +1 or a +1+ pad. If you are running a +2 or longer pad the longer spring is the right way to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fullauto_Shooter Posted March 10, 2009 Author Share Posted March 10, 2009 There is no reason to do so if you are running a +1 or a +1+ pad. If you are running a +2 or longer pad the longer spring is the right way to go. Thanks Howard - are the SNLs considered +1+ pads? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-ManBart Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 There is no reason to do so if you are running a +1 or a +1+ pad. If you are running a +2 or longer pad the longer spring is the right way to go. Thanks Howard - are the SNLs considered +1+ pads? I have some Grams 11mm pads (definitely a +2) on STI tubes and even with a 13-coil spring the followers will roll and bind up at 22-23rds. They'll work fine unless you seat the mag hard and bingo...they roll. I had to add the Arredondo inserts to prevent that. Those same tubes (they are tuned) with an 11-coil and a standard Dawson +1 will also roll the follower at 23rds. For whatever reason that's never happened with a 13-coil in them. In your testing I'd fill them to capacity and do a hard reload (slide closed) and make sure they don't bind...just in case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norbs007 Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 Same here, I use the Grams 13-coil spring/follower on both 170mm and 140mm 38/9 STI and SVI tubes with Limcat brass basepads. 23 rounds in the 140mm 24 if you squeeze hard enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1911jerry Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 I was running a 140mm STI tube in 38/9 and was using a 13 coil Grams spring and follower with a Bolen base pad. The follower rolled and I had a salt and pepper shaker in my gun. I had a few rounds get ahead of the follower. I went back to the 11 coil spring, grams follower in the STI tube. All is well. Jerry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSMITH Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 Yes, the SNL is a +1+ pad. Using a 13 coil spring to prevent follower roll can work but it is really telling you the setup is wrong. Using the right pad for the tube works better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-ManBart Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 I was running a 140mm STI tube in 38/9 and was using a 13 coil Grams spring and follower with a Bolen base pad. The follower rolled and I had a salt and pepper shaker in my gun. I had a few rounds get ahead of the follower. I went back to the 11 coil spring, grams follower in the STI tube. All is well.Jerry That's backwards. The follower rolls when it gets below the ribs on the side of the tube. An 11-coil will let the follower go lower in the tube than a 13-coil will....thus easier to get below the ribs. R, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeamGE Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 Recommended usage by the manufacture: "Use FKS-11 Follower Kit in SPS/STI/SV/Rescomp mags that measure up to 145mm in length (this measurement is with base pad attached). Will work with .38/9mm, .40, and .45 calibers." "Use FKS-13 Follower Kit in SPS/STI/SV/Rescomp mags that measure 146mm to 171mm in length (this measurement is with base pad attached). Will work with .38/9mm, .40, and .45 calibers." "Follower Kits FKS9-11 and FKS9-13 are designed to work in the same length mags as described above, but with a spacer plate installed inside the mag tube." (this is usually done when using STI .38 tubes for 9x19) Short mag setups can use different base pad lengths to achieve the same round count, just use the appropriate length spring for best reliability. Grams Follower Kits are designed to eliminate "rollover", and this term is oftened used incorrectly when describing a jammed mag. When loading a short mag in .38/9mm past 22 rounds (also a 171mm mag past 27 rounds by the way), you run the risk of loading a cartridge past the end of the spacing grooves on the sides of the mag tube (usually a STI tube problem, but can be the same with older SV and SPS tubes also), which will cause a cartridge to get past the side of the follower (because the tube gets wider at that point), getting stuck on the abrupt edge of the rib, thus causing a jammed mag (salt shaker). A truly "tuned" mag will address this problem, but this diluted and abused term "tuned mag", usually does not describe all the small but very important details such as this. Adding a rib extension or spacer to the inside of tube can fix this issue, but it is one more thing inside the tube you have to worry about. The practice of using a 13 coil spring in a 145mm or shorter mag is usually done to limit the round count to that 22-23 mark, thus giving the illusion that the mag is more reliable. If you have any questions, you can always call the manufacture for answers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxshooter Posted March 11, 2009 Share Posted March 11, 2009 I use 13 coil springs in my .40 140mm mags with Dawson SNL base pads and in my 9mm Major mags with Gram's 11mm base pads. They hold the same number of rounds as th 11 coil spring. Just a little harder to load when they are brand new. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z40acp Posted March 11, 2009 Share Posted March 11, 2009 I've always figured if the 11 coil was for 140mm and the 13 coil was for 170mm, I would cut them to 12 coils for the 140's with extended base pads. I do realize there is a limit on the STI's if you don't have something to take the space up on the sides at the bottom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outerlimits Posted March 11, 2009 Share Posted March 11, 2009 A truly "tuned" mag will address this problem, but this diluted and abused term "tuned mag", usually does not describe all the small but very important details such as this. Adding a rib extension or spacer to the inside of tube can fix this issue, but it is one more thing inside the tube you have to worry about. The practice of using a 13 coil spring in a 145mm or shorter mag is usually done to limit the round count to that 22-23 mark, thus giving the illusion that the mag is more reliable. If you have any questions, you can always call the manufacture for answers. IMHO, bevin, here, describes one of the unknown secrets to tuning mags for higher capacity. not easy to do w/o tools/jigs, but beven at least opens up to what the secret is. he's spot on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fullauto_Shooter Posted March 11, 2009 Author Share Posted March 11, 2009 Thanks for all the discussion and feedback and special thanks to Beven for taking the time to respond personally with even more and better info than was requested. This sort of personal involvement is what makes this sport and these forums the best!! Guess I'll just stick with the 140mm springs in the 140mm mags. Gotta order some tomorrow. Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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