Jigs for triger jobs

[gunner40sw]

Has anyone out there ever get one of the jigs from Brownels to do a triger job on your 1911 or 2011. Is this a venture worth attempting or should it be left to a smith.

[Josh Biondi]

Has anyone out there ever get one of the jigs from Brownels to do a triger job on your 1911 or 2011. Is this a venture worth attempting or should it be left to a smith.

If you dont know what to do very well, its better to leave to do the job to a smith. Otherwise you can get the trigger job as you better prefere, but only if you know what to do.

Personally I spent few month (and waste a lot of spare parts and $$$$) before to learn exactly what to do and how to do.... but now for me its a big satisfaction to build it by myself!

good luck!!

[00bullitt]

I do my own trigger jobs and plenty of work for my friends. It is not as easy as buying a jig but one can do their own work with a basic understanding of the workings of the 1911 fire control. I use the Marvel Jig and some certain stones I have acquired that I like. But the most important stone I use is a Norton 1/2"x1/2" Arkansas for the final polish work. I also use a 20x microscope and a hammer/sear fixture that I made to view engagement for and a 6x magnified visor for everything else.

For what the jig costs.....an Extreme or Cylinder and Slide kit can be purchased or one of the other notable pre set drop in kits. Just be prepared to sacrifice some of your own parts while attempting to learn. I have used the power custom 2 jig in the past and liked it. The click type adjustments made it easy to repeat work on certain parts.

[rooster]

If you stick with good quality parts you and have a good frame then you can get away with the marvel sear jig for about 50.00 bucks. If you get a hammer and sear that are matted then all you need is to polish the sear nose a little. I have a ceramic fine stone that I use to just polish the sear nose at pretty much the factory bevel. I have gotten pulls down to 2lb without any following for thousands of rnds. If you are going to get serious and do jobs for your friends then you would probably need the Powers custom jig set up. There is alot of info on how to do trigger jobs on this site. Its not that hard, and you save sending your gun off to a smith for an extended period of time.

[DougR]

Doing a trigger job requires a full understanding of all the issues involved with changing the hammer, sear and thumb safety relationship.

Have you tested the safeties before beginning work on a trigger?

What is a safe relationship of sear primary angles to hammer notch angles?

What are unsafe sear or hammer angles?

How much material can be safely removed from the height of the hammer notch?

What is the primary and secondary sear angle?

How is a secondary angle cut into a sear?

What is the minimum safe sear length from the tip of the sear to the center of the sear pivot hole?

What is the prefered method of adjusting the sear spring as it relates to the disconnector and the sear?

What part does the main spring play in trigger pull?

Is it ok to modify the main spring or should the main spring be replaced?

Is it ok to modify the firing pin spring?

How does the sear pin and hammer pivot pin fit affect trigger pull?

What is the correct angle of the hammer notch?

Can this angle be safely modified?

What is the correct angle of the sear primary angle?

How do you test the fit of the sear to the hammer notch?

How do you test for hammer follow?

How many rounds should be fired to assure you the trigger job is working properly?

What to do if there is a misfire while conducting firing tests?

How do you test the pistol's safeties? What do you do if a safety isn't working properly.

Is the pistol safe if dropped?

How do you document the work done on a pistol?

There are more, but you get the idea.

Now for the an important liability question for doing trigger jobs for a friend.

Are you absolutely confident you can make a safe trigger job that will last the life of the pistol?

What is the minimum weight trigger job you will do for a friend?

What is the minimum weight trigger job for carry as opposed to target work only?

Are you liable for any negligent or accidental discharges for any pistol you have modified?

Are you prepared to defend yourself in a court of law for any work you have done to a pistol? Even ten years later and several owners later.

What kind of paperwork do you need to do if you do a trigger job for a friend?

This is only meant as food for thought.

Edited February 22, 2009 by DougR

[CSEMARTIN]

I've been thinking about this post for few days, and I think you should leave the trigger work to a smith unless you are 100% committed to learning it yourself.

[HSMITH]

I have done triggers for years, I have done hundreds, have a half dozen jigs, hundreds and hundreds of dollars in stones, magnifying goggles, loupes, 20X microscope, precision jigs I made for checking engagement, and on and on. I could fill a rubber-maid tote with trigger crap for 1911 types, at least a thousand dollars worth of crap and that is very conservative. What it boils down to for me, is that most of my trigger work gear has been money pissed away, and most of the time spent 'learning' has been time pissed away and we won't even talk about all the hammers and sears that I experimented on. The frames are not closely controlled enough to allow one 'setting' to be the money setting, and chasing that one setting that is good on most guns is money wasted, trust me. Each frame will need the parts tailored to it specifically and that is that. I can do great trigger work, but I won't. I shoot 2.5-5 pound triggers depending on use and I can do that economically from a time and parts perspective. If I need something more I will send it out to a really good trigger man, it is money wisely spent for me to do what I am really good at and pay someone else who is really good at what they do to do special trigger work instead of spending my time on it. With the work I am really good at doing I can actually make money by doing my thing and paying other people to do what they are really good at when their skill at that particular job is superior to mine. I don't see this as modesty or being humble, I see it as being fiscally honest. The difference between a superb 2# trigger and a superb 2.5# trigger is an order of magnitude or more, drop it to a pound and a half compared to a 2.5# trigger and it is several orders of magnitude. When I say 'superb' I mean a trigger that will last many tens of thousands of rounds of live fire and several times that in dry fire. The average IPSC shooter is 'hardcore' when it comes to wear and tear on a gun, and some guys are REALLY tough on their gear with a hundred dry fire snaps per live round fired with wear and tear on the trigger group being quite severe.

Unless you just have to know or want something that someone else won't do for you pay to have your trigger work done, put in a couple extra hours at work or do a side job or just go out and practice, I think that is the most economical way to go about it.

[technetium-99m]

Others may disagree with me here but here goes.

1911 work can be very tedious, especially while learning. You will spend far more on parts and tools to build one than by paying a smith to build something for you. But the satisfaction of doing it yourself is immense. As far as trigger work goes, I think too much is made of the ultralight 1911/2011 trigger. A hobbyist can produce wonderful clean pulls of 3-4 pounds with the jigs and stones from Bownells. It will take you hours of work. My first 3 pound trigger took me 3.5 hours. You have to spec out everything and double check everything. You have to put in the time to understand the parts and how they work.

If you learn from good sources, take your time, and buy quality tools I truly believe that the majority of hobbyists will produce a product easily exceeding factory work.

As far as doing it for someone else, you can make that decision, but I would seriously think about it before you play with someone elses' triggers.

GT

[Anthony Lombardo]

I have done triggers for years, I have done hundreds, have a half dozen jigs, hundreds and hundreds of dollars in stones, magnifying goggles, loupes, 20X microscope, precision jigs I made for checking engagement, and on and on. I could fill a rubber-maid tote with trigger crap for 1911 types, at least a thousand dollars worth of crap and that is very conservative. What it boils down to for me, is that most of my trigger work gear has been money pissed away, and most of the time spent 'learning' has been time pissed away and we won't even talk about all the hammers and sears that I experimented on. The frames are not closely controlled enough to allow one 'setting' to be the money setting, and chasing that one setting that is good on most guns is money wasted, trust me. Each frame will need the parts tailored to it specifically and that is that. I can do great trigger work, but I won't. I shoot 2.5-5 pound triggers depending on use and I can do that economically from a time and parts perspective. If I need something more I will send it out to a really good trigger man, it is money wisely spent for me to do what I am really good at and pay someone else who is really good at what they do to do special trigger work instead of spending my time on it. With the work I am really good at doing I can actually make money by doing my thing and paying other people to do what they are really good at when their skill at that particular job is superior to mine. I don't see this as modesty or being humble, I see it as being fiscally honest. The difference between a superb 2# trigger and a superb 2.5# trigger is an order of magnitude or more, drop it to a pound and a half compared to a 2.5# trigger and it is several orders of magnitude. When I say 'superb' I mean a trigger that will last many tens of thousands of rounds of live fire and several times that in dry fire. The average IPSC shooter is 'hardcore' when it comes to wear and tear on a gun, and some guys are REALLY tough on their gear with a hundred dry fire snaps per live round fired with wear and tear on the trigger group being quite severe.

Unless you just have to know or want something that someone else won't do for you pay to have your trigger work done, put in a couple extra hours at work or do a side job or just go out and practice, I think that is the most economical way to go about it.

Who is a really good trigger man?

[JD45]

In years past, I remember reading posts about how a Koenig hammer and an EGW sear would give you a good trigger job with hardly any work at all. Some guys claimed sub-three pounds. Is this still true?

[Dan Sierpina]

In years past, I remember reading posts about how a Koenig hammer and an EGW sear would give you a good trigger job with hardly any work at all. Some guys claimed sub-three pounds. Is this still true?

It's the combination I use, but, I don't use anything as a "drop in". My triggers are lighter than that also.

[00bullitt]

The EGW sear just makes triggers feel awesome due to it being so hard. The EGW sear also works very well with the STI hammers. Easy to get 2# triggers with that combo.....assuming you know how to set them up properly. My favorite combo is the EGW sear with Cylinder and Slide Light Speed II hammer and C&S disconnector. I like either the Wolff or Ed Brown Hardcore sear springs also. They tend to last forever and help maintain a good consistend trigger for longest life.

[HSMITH]

Anthony, Rich Dettlehouser is semi-local to me (about 3 hours) and does really good trigger work.

[Anthony Lombardo]

Anthony, Rich Dettlehouser is semi-local to me (about 3 hours) and does really good trigger work.

Thanks. I like the look of his guns too! I owned an XD he built and it was quite nice for what it was.

[CSEMARTIN]

I met Rich when I bought my mill off of his neighbor. He's a really nice guy!

[SharonAnne9x23]

DougR, I doubt anyone can do a trigger job that will last the life of the pistol. While durable, hammers and sears ARE consumables.

[Jediwarrior]

I agree with DougR. You can't just buy a jig and stones from Brownells and do it yourself, you have to know important things like heights, angles and spring weights. Knowledge of the working relationship of the other parts, like disconnector, trigger, recoil spring, is also important.

If you shoot a lot, and wear out the sear and/or hammer sooner than you like, and have some engineering background, then you may want consider doing it.

I use a Marvel Custom sear jig, with Brownells ground ceramic stones, both black (medium) and white (fine). The Yavapai microscope is great for looking at the sear engagement. I also use 3M polishing paper, but is hard to find.

Unfortunately, there are not many books and reference material about this kind of work. Jerry Kuhnhausen's book "The Colt 45 Automatic, A Shop Manual Vol. 1" is a good start.

Lastly, use high quality parts from EGW, Ed Brown, Wilson Combat for longer lasting trigger pulls.