Blueridge Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 I am considering shooting my revolver in production division in some local matches. I am curious how I would place against other production shooters, and figured that I would try it and see. The reason that I have not done this in the past is that Ruger revolvers have not been on the approved production gun list until recently. I am still going to shoot revolver division primarily, but just for a change of pace I figured that I would compete in production. I just have to move around the gear on my belt. Do you think that it is worth a try, or just a waste of effort? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Sahlberg Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 Blueridge, It is not a matter of arranging your holster and mag holders at the hip, revolvers will not fit in the Production or Box. Length and width are fine but the box also measures height (from a flat gun) and the cylinder, even of a "K" frame is too wide. However, you may shoot in Open Division if you are gamey enough :-) Revos also can shoot in any other division, except Single Stack of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom E Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 Blueridge,It is not a matter of arranging your holster and mag holders at the hip, revolvers will not fit in the Production or Box. Length and width are fine but the box also measures height (from a flat gun) and the cylinder, even of a "K" frame is too wide. However, you may shoot in Open Division if you are gamey enough :-) Revos also can shoot in any other division, except Single Stack of course. One more time: Maximum size Handgun and all magazines (revolvers are exempt) There are a bunch of other restrictions that get really grey when trying to apply them to revolvers. I got a 4" 627 Pro and was thinking of Production occaisionally also. L10 is equally peculiar, you can't shoot major with sub .40 cal, minor only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhgtyre Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 (edited) Edited February 16, 2009 by jhgtyre Tom E is faster than me! :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nashvillebill Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 I think a moonclipped 8 shooter in production would be fun and very competitive. I think a 6 shooter would only be fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blueridge Posted February 16, 2009 Author Share Posted February 16, 2009 After reviewing the rules for production, I came to find out that I don't have to chance my setup of my gear (thanks for the replies). An 8 shot revolver would be more competitive than a 6 shot, but if I was that concerned about having the best setup competition wise I would use my S&W 625 with moonclips instead of my ruger with speedloaders. Oh, and I would also get an 8 shot revolver as you suggested. I just want to see how may (if any) auto shooters I can finish in front of wielding a 6 shot revolver. I figure that I can make a good showing at least. As always I'm ice skating uphill....Again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 I usually just shoot in Revolver division, then look at the overall (unofficial) combined match results to see how many auto shooters I whipped up on. Technically, my 8-shooters are not Production-legal because they have modifications that are externally visible. Mike P.S. Bill S., the current edition of the rulebook is available online at the USPSA website, in case you lost your hard copy of the book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom E Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 Seems like in Production a bobbed (or Carmonized) hammmer and maybe a cylinder release (standard revolver stuff) are probably illegal. In Limited 10 a 627 has to shoot minor being sub .40 cal. Same for Limited. Not exactly a friendly environment for an 8 shot revolver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viggen Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 Seems like in Production a bobbed (or Carmonized) hammmer and maybe a cylinder release (standard revolver stuff) are probably illegal.In Limited 10 a 627 has to shoot minor being sub .40 cal. Same for Limited. Not exactly a friendly environment for an 8 shot revolver. Every Division is Revolver friendly, with the exception of SS. SS is afraid of allowing the 8-shot revolver(that's the real reason for SS). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwarren9 Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 rev. are exempt for the box in pro. I shoot my 627 in pro. Its a blast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rather-B-Huntin Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 Not exactly a friendly environment for an 8 shot revolver. 8-Shooters get no respect! I wish they'd change the ruling so they could be utilized with all 8 cylinders and be scored as minor in Revo division!! Until that happens, I'm gonna buy a 627 and shoot it in Prod. and ICORE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colbyjack Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 heres yesterdays match i shot my 625 with cmore on it and finished 20th. it was alot of fun. first real match with the cmore on it. it takes all the competition out of it and is purely for fun. i know ill get smoked in open class but its all about the fun to me. i told the match director we need to petition for a open revolver class. the match director told me im one of only 3 idiots in the country with a dot sight on a wheel gun. i followed up with, name your match bring any of the guns hes classifed with and ill out shoot ya for a case of beer any day.... lol he walked away after that. but wow you got to know the guy, im proud of my open wheel gun. nothing like a smack in the face, by the range director. lol o well .... Milan Rifle CLub February 2009 Match Date: 2/15/2009 Combined divisions - These are NOT official results. Place Name USPSA Class Division PF Lady Mil Law For Age Points Stg % 1 Jensen, Bob REENTRY B Limited Major N N N N 438.0888 100.00% 2 Riccioni, Rick REENTRY B Open Major N N N N Super Senior 421.4641 96.21% 3 Schroeder, David A57298 A Limited 10 Major N N N N 405.0941 92.47% 4 Jensen, Bob A47064 B Limited Major N N N N 372.8415 85.11% 5 Hood, Brian REENTRY U Single Stack Major N N N N 331.0917 75.58% 6 Ruport, Scott TY62455 U Limited Minor N N N N 322.3442 73.58% 7 Wade, Brad TY31876 C Single Stack Major N N N N Senior 321.0432 73.28% 8 Anderson, Sam A63073 U Single Stack Major N N N N 316.7585 72.30% 9 Hood, Brian TY49258 U Single Stack Major N N N N 315.7340 72.07% 10 Anderson, Sam REENTRY U Single Stack Major N N N N 299.6845 68.41% 11 Hill, Earl REENTRY C Limited Major N N N N 298.3614 68.11% 12 Hill, Earl FY48057 U Single Stack Major N N N N 293.2302 66.93% 13 Wade, Brad REENTRY C Single Stack Major N N N N Senior 291.6408 66.57% 14 Stock, Esther L1489 C Open Major Y N N N 289.3044 66.04% 15 Cabrera, Dante A47437 U Single Stack Minor N N N N 264.5870 60.40% 16 Stock, D.M.L. L1490 B Open Major N N N N Senior 264.2073 60.31% 17 Dougherty, Tim A54166 C Production Minor N N N N 242.8572 55.44% 18 Shaw, Scott A63936 U Single Stack Major N N N N 232.7967 53.14% 19 Riccioni, Rick TY27598 B Limited 10 Major N N N N Super Senior 224.6787 51.29% 20 Dyer, Chris A59615 U Open Major N N N N 214.0733 48.87% 21 Waynick, Tim A62421 U Limited Minor N Y N N 190.1686 43.41% 22 Cherry, Ryan U Open Major N N N N 187.8425 42.88% 23 Snider, Zachary Pen U Single Stack Major N N N N 172.6439 39.41% 24 Welch, Jason TY59670 D Single Stack Major N N N N 154.1265 35.18% 25 Smith, Phillip A59505 C Single Stack Major N N N N 139.7133 31.89% 26 Licht, Joe A59659 U Revolver Minor N N N N 130.1455 29.71% 27 Bush, Ryan U Limited Major N N N N 124.6120 28.44% 28 Suthers, Robert U Single Stack Major N N N N 115.3435 26.33% 29 Swanson, John U Single Stack Major N N N N 54.3076 12.40% i wasnt aware a wheel gun could be used in production. very interesting, have fun with em guys. -chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom E Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 heres yesterdays match i shot my 625 with cmore on it and finished 20th. it was alot of fun. first real match with the cmore on it. it takes all the competition out of it and is purely for fun. i know ill get smoked in open class but its all about the fun to me. i wasnt aware a wheel gun could be used in production. very interesting, have fun with em guys. -chris Don't feel like the only one. My 625 is wearing a C-More and being shot as Open. Fixin' to be shooting a 627 Pro as Prod. or L10 or with a C-More as Open. Production seems the best fit. Everybody is minor. Anybody know if a Blade Tech DOH is production legal? My CR Speed sure isn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rather-B-Huntin Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 Anybody know if a Blade Tech DOH is production legal? My CR Speed sure isn't. I've got one that should be here for my 625 in the next couple of days. I plan on running a 627 in it in Prod. once I get the gun. If it isn't legal, I guess you could always switch to the SRB attachment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwarren9 Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 yes they are legal at is what I am shooting mine with . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rather-B-Huntin Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 (edited) Doubled my post somehow?? So I erased the duplicate and added this. Edited February 17, 2009 by Rather-B-Huntin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasond Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 All I ever shoot is production with my 627 v-comp, short colt / ranier 158s, bladetech doh, homemade holders - now legal in front! Place Name USPSA Class Division PF Lady Mil Law For Age Points Stg % 1 DeGracia, Jeff A56592 GM Production Minor N N N N 616.5571 100.00% 2 Zielski, Aaron A60361 A Production Minor N N N N 601.9375 97.63% 3 Wallace, Bruce L2633 M Production Minor N N N N Senior 598.7872 97.12% 4 Zavalla, Andy A59244 B Production Minor N N N N 533.9686 86.60% 5 Buell, Chris U Production Minor N N N N 491.1915 79.67% 6 Kaewplang, Ann A58196 B Production Minor Y N N N 482.2250 78.21% 7 McCulloch, Brad A52470 A Production Minor N N N N 467.2481 75.78% 8 Williams, David A21833 C Production Minor N N N N 442.7223 71.81% 9 Messina, Todd TY51913 C Production Minor N N N N 435.6682 70.66% 10 Corley, DeBee TY20255 B Production Minor N N N N Super Senior 434.5554 70.48% 11 Dembkoski, Jason A61615 C Production Minor N N N N 429.2997 69.63% 12 Gibson, James A59410 D Production Minor N N N N Junior 424.1448 68.79% 13 Clawson, Ryan A59844 C Production Minor N N N N 415.4290 67.38% 14 McCune, Jim A58197 C Production Minor N N N N Senior 400.1371 64.90% 15 McCune, Bill TY56791 B Production Minor N N N N 379.2263 61.51% 16 Stimpfling, Bob A31845 C Production Minor N N N N 378.0117 61.31% 17 Longhitano, Jay A62610 C Production Minor N N N N 376.9391 61.14% 18 Crotty, Zackary A59921 C Production Minor N N N N 371.2657 60.22% 19 Crotty, William A59920 C Production Minor N N N N 348.3846 56.50% 20 Stallbaum, Daniel A62089 D Production Minor N N N N 347.7312 56.40% 21 Plumer, Dean A57031 B Production Minor N N N N Senior 338.1030 54.84% 22 Mott, Merry D Production Minor Y N N N 312.9321 50.75% 23 Trunnell, Tanner A62599 C Production Minor N N N N 312.5992 50.70% 24 Miller, David U Production Minor N N N N 295.5340 47.93% 25 Connelly, John A22620 U Production Minor N N N N Super Senior 269.1700 43.66% 26 Wurst, James U Production Minor N N N N 258.5412 41.93% 27 Schneider, Darren A62670 C Production Minor N N N N 243.7719 39.54% 28 King, Donald W. A58222 D Production Minor N N N N Senior 206.5941 33.51% 29 MacMillan, Neil A63792 U Production Minor N N N N 187.8887 30.47% 30 Nunes, Steve A61052 U Production Minor N N N N 177.3996 28.77% 31 Longhitano, Tammie A62943 D Production Minor Y N N N 103.5962 16.80% 32 Raciti, Louis A58181 U Production Minor N N N N 80.4588 13.05% 33 Alvarado, Miguel U Production Minor N N N N 35.1768 5.71% 34 Montalvo, Ian U Production Minor N N N N Junior 3.1347 0.51% DQed Jeinusas, Frank U Production Minor N N N N 0.0000 0.00% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasond Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 We need to lobby for full Icore limited guns/rigs in production to help the crossover shooters. Plus, I need all the help I can get! It sucks trying to get that big gun out of a production holster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blueridge Posted February 20, 2009 Author Share Posted February 20, 2009 (edited) Well I'll be shooting production with my revolver in the local USPSA match next month. Should be interesting to say the least. I just have to decide if I am going to reload some ammunition lighter than my normal USPSA load, or just go with what I normally use. I'll probably go with my normal loads as I don't think that will make much difference to my shooting. Edited February 20, 2009 by Blueridge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
professor Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 Not exactly a friendly environment for an 8 shot revolver. 8-Shooters get no respect! I wish they'd change the ruling so they could be utilized with all 8 cylinders and be scored as minor in Revo division!! Until that happens, I'm gonna buy a 627 and shoot it in Prod. and ICORE. Allowing an 8-shot in revo with ONLY the penalty of having to shoot minor is not a sufficient handicap. The main problem with a 6-shot revo in "keeping up" with other production guns is the available round count, not the points per shot. When a 6-shot is forced to make a reload and an 8-shot is not, the time penalty is 2 to 3 seconds for normal humans [Jerry M excluded]. No way does minor vs. major scoring make up for that. Besides, some of our 6-shot revo shooters are already shooting minor and using speedloaders. And did I miss something about equipment positioning? Don't you still have to have the holster and reloaders located behind the hip bone? That's what kept me from shooting a revo in Production. I just don't have the flexibility and manual dexterity to handle retrieving moonclips from behind my back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 Stan, you did miss something.....under the most recent edition of the rules (blue book), it notes that revolvers are exempt from the box rule, and from the equipment position on belt rule. (Page 74.) Also, nobody who is seriously competitive on the national level is shooting minor or using speedloaders. Bubber is the closest we have to being truly competitive with a 686, and I think he would admit that he's just being stubborn about it. I don't think it's as clear-cut that 6-rd. major could not keep up with 8-rd. minor if both formats were allowed in revolver division. The difference between major and minor scoring over the course of a match is big. And 6-rd. revolvers will always reload slightly faster. I will agree that in a match full of 8-shot arrays the 627 would probably win heads-up against the 625, in equally competent hands. But a good USPSA match will not load up so heavily on 8-shot arrays, and then you would have a real horse race between the formats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick B Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 Professor, I have recently started shooting production with my 627. You dont have to position your moonclips behind your back. Just put them in front as you would in ICORE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom E Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 But a good USPSA match will not load up so heavily on 8-shot arrays, and then you would have a real horse race between the formats. I shoot USPSA outdoors with three different clubs during the summer and this rule, "not require more than 8 scoring hits from any single location or view," has the unfortunate effect of an endless series of 8 rd arrays. Yes, in a perfect world that wouldn't happen but I have to judge by what I see. It's a rule I'd toss in the garbage can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 Yeah, unfortunately a lot of clubs do a really poor job of stage design--particularly clubs that do not have many serious shooters that travel to major matches. I think it takes repeated exposure to lots of well-designed stages at big matches to understand how things are supposed to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 On the other hand, just throwing the 8-round rule in the trash would make it even worse, because then the bad stage designers would go back to creating stages with a whole slew of targets that can all be engaged from one or two sweet spots. We've all seen that scenario at "renegade" matches where the 8-round rule is ignored.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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