Data base for stage designs

[Chris iliff]

I'm thinking now that this forum, Stage Comments or Questions, should have a subforum entitled "STAGE DESIGNS" where all posted stages are staged. I still think it should be like a catalog and the talking should be elsewhere, else the stages get lost in long or ancient threads. How would you get people to post there and not in the middle of a thread somewhere else? I guess you'd need a way to do that, and to reference the stages by some type of easy system like numbers as I described in my post above. If you are in another forum and the subject comes up you have to be able to link to (provide) the exact stage being referenced. People do links to other threads all the time, I don't know how to do it, but it's done. I really wish someone with the know how would do this and remedy the "Here's a stage" threads that all get lost (buried) over time. Posting a stage in some other forum would have to be considered TABOO by all, this is the part that would be the hardest to change. People would have to post stages in that subforum and then link them to the appropriate thread. I really like the idea. I wish someone would come along and blow holes in it and show me (us) what would be the downside. Right now I don't see one.

[p2000lefty]

FourTrax,

I've asked some computer tech friends of mine to look into this thread and see what they think. I know that it is possible. I have no idea how difficult it would be. After we get some more feedback maybe I'll try to get it into Mr. Enos's hands.

-p2000lefty

[wide45]

I don't much think we should ask Brian to expand (pay$for) additional data storage for these forums.

A stage design database would be great, as the center of an entirely new website. Done right, it could be self supporting through advertising.

[Flexmoney]

gino_aki,

With the chance of sounding redundant... I am inspired by your stages! Thank you for sharing them. I feel bad that they are so deep in this thread that people may miss them. You have a definite talent that should be shared. Consider posting them in a new thread?

DonT you should also consider posting your stages in a new thread. I'm sure that many people missed them here.

Thanks,

-p2000lefty

Yes....they are lost in a "general discussion" thread. For sure.

[Flexmoney]

A searchable database...in the manner mentioned earlier...probably isn't supported by the forum software in any way.

We would be parking a lot of extra data on Brian's server. I don't know how much server space he now has. Seems like every couple of years the "plenty of space" dwindles away.

I could build out a separate forum just for this idea. It could have a "general" discussion area, where the stages could be talked about and improved on...maybe we'd then give them a stamp of approval and post them in one of 3 sub-forums (short, medium and long cof...for example).

Something like that would, however, take some active management/moderation to make it viable. Just like going to the neighborhood library...things would be a mess without a system and somebody keeping the books on the proper shelves.

[joecichlid]

Flex, I so know what you mean about storage space. My first PC had a 128 meg hard drive and I was told I would never fill that up. This was back in the day when RAM was running about $100 a meg too. Heck my cell phone has a 2 gig memory card in it. lol

Joe W.

[gino_aki]

A searchable database...in the manner mentioned earlier...probably isn't supported by the forum software in any way.

We would be parking a lot of extra data on Brian's server. I don't know how much server space he now has. Seems like every couple of years the "plenty of space" dwindles away.

I could build out a separate forum just for this idea. It could have a "general" discussion area, where the stages could be talked about and improved on...maybe we'd then give them a stamp of approval and post them in one of 3 sub-forums (short, medium and long cof...for example).

Something like that would, however, take some active management/moderation to make it viable. Just like going to the neighborhood library...things would be a mess without a system and somebody keeping the books on the proper shelves.

This is why I thought compiling it and distributing it on a disc made more sense. RW media would allow it to be updated.

Gino

[Silver_Surfer]

Is anyone still using the green template like me?

V- Production-V

Edited March 11, 2009 by Silver_Surfer

[gino_aki]

Is anyone still using the green template like me?

No, we use our computers for more than youtube...

You shooting Production or L-10 this weekend?

[p2000lefty]

Hello BE community,

I had a friend with computer knowledge far beyond my understanding look into the database idea. I would like to thank him for taking the time and seriously thinking about this idea. Here is his reply.

Kirk,

I actually looked into this a little and have some knowledge of

databases and the such. There are several gigantic challenges to

creating a database such as is being suggested.

First challenge is the structure. The structure of the database needs

to be determined based on what you want to get out of it. In this

instance, you want round count, classic vs metric target count,

designer name, props, etc. This all needs to be determined before you

build the database. Then, after you have it built, prepare to create

more and more fields, as somebody will inevitably need several added.

Second challenge is the administration of this database. I touched on

it a moment ago. Adding fields to the already created database

structure. Also, the database would need to be semi optimized for

efficient data extraction. I know a couple database administrators

that are currently pulling in 100+g salaries. This is a skilled

requirement, and not cheap. Maybe somebody in the shooting community

would step up and maintain and optimize the database. I am sure that

somebody out there is doing this as a occupation.

Third challenge is the front end query/search and data input

component. This is by far the larger of the three challenges that I

am presenting. This will require somebody with a rather large

programing knowledge when it comes to writing database front end query

/ search, and data input applications. This is another one of those

skilled requirements. They also commend great salaries. I am sure

once again that this skill is in the skill set of the shooting

community.

So, can this be done? Absolutely. Will it be easy to do? Absolutely

not. Will the shooting community benefit? No doubt about it. I even

think that there could be some money made off of it. But, I think it

would take a fair amount of effort, expense, and time to bring this

idea to the community. I want to be clear. I think it is a great

idea and you should be proud of yourself for putting it out there.

But in my opinion, it is a gigantic undertaking that may or may not

pan out.

Thank you again Mike.

-p2000lefty

[Flexmoney]

Jeff Maass, on his old website, used to compile stage designs. He put them in pdf files. As I recall, gave title, round count and stated Virginia/Comstock.

At one point, he had about 3 books worth of stuff that you could download. He had a glossary (smaller download).

Amos Patterson, a handful of years ago, put out a collection of stage designs for sale. I think the proceeds went to benefit his local club.

Those designs are probably dated now and many aren't legal per the current rule book...still good places to mine for ideas. (No, I don't have the info on how you can get that stuff, so don't email/PM me for it. If you find out..post it. )

[Chris iliff]

Hello BE community,

I had a friend with computer knowledge far beyond my understanding look into the database idea. I would like to thank him for taking the time and seriously thinking about this idea. Here is his reply.

Kirk,

I actually looked into this a little and have some knowledge of

databases and the such. There are several gigantic challenges to

creating a database such as is being suggested.

First challenge is the structure. The structure of the database needs

to be determined based on what you want to get out of it. In this

instance, you want round count, classic vs metric target count,

designer name, props, etc. This all needs to be determined before you

build the database. Then, after you have it built, prepare to create

more and more fields, as somebody will inevitably need several added.

Second challenge is the administration of this database. I touched on

it a moment ago. Adding fields to the already created database

structure. Also, the database would need to be semi optimized for

efficient data extraction. I know a couple database administrators

that are currently pulling in 100+g salaries. This is a skilled

requirement, and not cheap. Maybe somebody in the shooting community

would step up and maintain and optimize the database. I am sure that

somebody out there is doing this as a occupation.

Third challenge is the front end query/search and data input

component. This is by far the larger of the three challenges that I

am presenting. This will require somebody with a rather large

programing knowledge when it comes to writing database front end query

/ search, and data input applications. This is another one of those

skilled requirements. They also commend great salaries. I am sure

once again that this skill is in the skill set of the shooting

community.

So, can this be done? Absolutely. Will it be easy to do? Absolutely

not. Will the shooting community benefit? No doubt about it. I even

think that there could be some money made off of it. But, I think it

would take a fair amount of effort, expense, and time to bring this

idea to the community. I want to be clear. I think it is a great

idea and you should be proud of yourself for putting it out there.

But in my opinion, it is a gigantic undertaking that may or may not

pan out.

Thank you again Mike.

-p2000lefty

I was really hoping this would not be the answer, but as I feared it seems to be a much more difficult task than it would seem to be. Maybe there is a simpler solution? Anyone? Bueller? Maybe we are thinking too big. Flex, would creating a sub forum for just stage designs only, no talk, be hard. You know, just a place to put them within the forum. Each one would be a thread by itself, no talk, just a title and a pdf or something. Like I said b4, I don't know this computer stuff and it all sounds easy until you do it.

[p2000lefty]

Flexmoney,

The reply from my friend was for the large scale. I like fourtrax's idea. With links from this forum for critiques and comments it could be helpful. So many stage designs get buried in a different thread and are never seen again.

What do you think Flex? I know that it takes server space. If it is successful and utilized it could expand to some categories Like classifier, short medium and field courses. But I digress, start small and see if it is truly utilized and valued by the community.

-p2000lefty

[SA Friday]

I could see sub-forums for short, medium and long courses and then a general stage forum for stage polishing and review. If you standardize the titles to cover the basic requirements searches would be pretty easy. For example the first line would be the stage title, the second line would be something like this:

Com, 32rnds, 15 metric, 2 pp.

or

Vir, 18rnds, FS SHO WHO strings

or

Stds, everyone will hate you for using this

You would still have to dig a little, but if you wanted a comstock stage with 30 to 32 rounds the search would be easier. The Mods would have to stay on top of the BE stage dewie title system to help with searches but it might work.

[Naffiner]

Hello,

I've been a long time browser / reader of these forums, but have never created an account, so this is my first post.

I had visited Stage Exchange a few months ago looking for a stage that would be easy to set up to practice on, and was underwhelmed with the organization and search functionality that they provided. I was also disappointed with the information that they provided before I had to download the stage diagram / document. I knew that i could create an easier to use and better organized site (I am a Software Engineer by trade), but was unsure of where I would find an active community to create content and activity.

I visited this sub-forum for the first time, and saw this thread the other day. Reading the posts has given me a renewed desire to create a new website that addresses the desires that I had as well as that of p2000lefty and the other posters in this thread.

That said, I have started working on a site that will hopefully be of value to the community. I should have a basic prototype going by sometime later this week for everyone to look at and provide some feedback.

Cheers~

[gino_aki]

Hello,

I've been a long time browser / reader of these forums, but have never created an account, so this is my first post.

I had visited Stage Exchange a few months ago looking for a stage that would be easy to set up to practice on, and was underwhelmed with the organization and search functionality that they provided. I was also disappointed with the information that they provided before I had to download the stage diagram / document. I knew that i could create an easier to use and better organized site (I am a Software Engineer by trade), but was unsure of where I would find an active community to create content and activity.

I visited this sub-forum for the first time, and saw this thread the other day. Reading the posts has given me a renewed desire to create a new website that addresses the desires that I had as well as that of p2000lefty and the other posters in this thread.

That said, I have started working on a site that will hopefully be of value to the community. I should have a basic prototype going by sometime later this week for everyone to look at and provide some feedback.

Cheers~

Well. that's a pretty weighty first post. Looking forward to seeing what you come up with. And more of your contributions here.

[p2000lefty]

Naffiner,

I would love to see what you come up with. You could probably sell ad space to fund and maintain your work. Let us know when you are ready.

-p2000lefty

[Naffiner]

Ended up getting stuck with taxes and Easter stuff this last week.

Should have something to look at tomorrow.

[Rob Boudrie]

But in my opinion, it is a gigantic undertaking that may or may not

pan out.

Someone who knows what they are doing with MySQL/Php, and clever enough to figure out the IPBoard user tables (so it would use the same user id's as the forums) could have a basic system working in two weekend worth of work. Add a few more days for a decent web interface (not necessarily done by the same person), and a bit of maintenance over the first few months as new ideas come up and we have a pretty decent system. My backlog is too big to tackle this at present.

If anyone competent in the above technologies is interested, convince Brian and I'll be glad to answer any questions you have about the current server/database environment.

[jmaass]

Jeff Maass, on his old website, used to compile stage designs. He put them in pdf files. As I recall, gave title, round count and stated Virginia/Comstock.

At one point, he had about 3 books worth of stuff that you could download. He had a glossary (smaller download).

Those designs are probably dated now and many aren't legal per the current rule book...still good places to mine for ideas. (No, I don't have the info on how you can get that stuff, so don't email/PM me for it. If you find out..post it. )

I can find them! ;-) http://www.k8nd.com/stage.htm

I've added a warning at the top of the page about the courses of fire being dated - the last was posted in 2002.

Even though they may not be compliant with all current rules, there are some interesting shooting challenges contained therein. Feel free to update them for your own use. (I have the Word sources here if anyone wants them).

Here's a sample: http://www.k8nd.com/documents/EasyTough.pdf

Six or seven of my courses have been used at USPSA Nationals matches over the years, and several more were used at other major matches.

[gino_aki]

Jeff Maass, on his old website, used to compile stage designs. He put them in pdf files. As I recall, gave title, round count and stated Virginia/Comstock.

At one point, he had about 3 books worth of stuff that you could download. He had a glossary (smaller download).

Those designs are probably dated now and many aren't legal per the current rule book...still good places to mine for ideas. (No, I don't have the info on how you can get that stuff, so don't email/PM me for it. If you find out..post it. )

I can find them! ;-) http://www.k8nd.com/stage.htm

I've added a warning at the top of the page about the courses of fire being dated - the last was posted in 2002.

Even though they may not be compliant with all current rules, there are some interesting shooting challenges contained therein. Feel free to update them for your own use. (I have the Word sources here if anyone wants them).

Here's a sample: http://www.k8nd.com/documents/EasyTough.pdf

Six or seven of my courses have been used at USPSA Nationals matches over the years, and several more were used at other major matches.

Whoa...thanks for the links Jeff, if we update some of these to fit current rules or use them as springboards....

Edited April 24, 2009 by gino_aki