RegRob Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 (edited) Hi all, Please see attached photo. I'm sure most of you have considered this before; outlining the A-zone to enhance focus on it. What I've noticed is that my Self II tends to be happy with the sight picture as long as he have all shots on the target, especially C-hits. I want to do drills with a higher focus on the A-zone, hoping that my Self II remembers this throughout competitions, and especially when I shoot stages that call for a high point-factor. Even though it shouldn't matter, I can clearly see that my hits are better, (and my shooting just a little slower), when I do drills with an outlined A-zone. Question is; does it improve my long term focus, or does it impair my ability to shoot at normal targets? Regards, Rob Edited December 30, 2008 by RegRob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boz1911 Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 I like to just outline the A zone with a magic marker.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 Brian (our host) suggests outlining the A-zone. Also... I like taping a cross through the middle of the A-zone ( + ). As seen on the left target. I also like putting 4 inch (~10cm) square stickers in the top part of the A-zone. Experiment...see what you see...experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seth Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 (edited) I'm no GM (heck for that matter, I'm still working on making B ), but I got the advice to outline the box with a sharpie. I have noticed that my dry fire has improved, as I'm not assuming A zone 'hits' anymore... now I can actually see if its in the A zone. Hopefully, it'll translate on the range. Edited December 30, 2008 by Sethmark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R.Elliott Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 Actually, a drill that I like is just the exact visual reverse of what you have in your picture. I use the template flipped around so that the no-shoot portion that remains (after cutting out the A-zone) is facing up range, and place it in front of the A-zone of the target I wish to shoot. So I have to shoot THROUGH the opening in the no-shoot without hitting the sides to hit my A-zone. I do this with multiple targets at varying distances to work on the shoot-and-move skills. I don't lay the template right on top of the shoot target either; usually leave a few feet of offset so that it forces me to work the "window." It's a great drill...for me anyway. Alternatively, you could try painting your targets so that everything BUT the A-zone is white. That way you are sighting on something that is constant with what you will be seeing at a match, and giving yourself a no-shoot penalty for every shot outside of the A-zone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AWLAZS Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 I put a square sticker inthe top of the A box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 You need to intuitively know two things - where the A-zone is located on the target, and where the center of the A-zone actually is. On a (so-called) Classic target, the center of the A-zone is not "center of mass" - its higher than that. I like black magic marker around the A-zone, plus something (business card works good) in the center of the A-zone, for both types of targets. Once you've got a good feel, drop the business card, and finally, drop the outline (but you can always add those back in for brushing up, or if you need to keep yourself honest) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbbean Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 Interesting thread! I would have thought this is a bad idea, and that we need to practice using the same target we'll face in competition, but I'm going to reconsider. What's it like to go from a well delineated taret to a plain target? Don't your eyes miss the outline, X, or contrasting colors? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uscbigdawg Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 Dave - I think in talking with you about this, this has been a huge tool in my dry and live fire training. I know I've talked about it too with John Bagakis. Like others, I was presenting the pistol to the center of the target rather than the center of the A-zone. This is best attributed to the long hiatis as I know that the A-Zone is not in the center of the target, but the brain sees target and holds to the center. Luckily during my break I did learn how to aim (instead of just hosing like I used to) and so while I hit A's and A/B's with no difficulty, when I do pitch one low, it's generally a C instead of the A it could have been with a better presentation and call. Using an outline around both my live fire targets and my reduced size dry fire targets has been a HUGE help. Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 Interesting thread! I would have thought this is a bad idea, and that we need to practice using the same target we'll face in competition, but I'm going to reconsider. What's it like to go from a well delineated taret to a plain target? Don't your eyes miss the outline, X, or contrasting colors? It's been a while since I've practiced, but I didn't find it to be a problem. I've used multiple methods --- cross, a collection of 9 pasters in a 3x3 pattern high center in the A box, and outlining it with black target tape..... One trick that may work for you if you're really concerned, is to start with tape lining the periphery of the A-zone, then switch to using magic marker, followed by finer and finer point Sharpies.... ....Or you could just end each practice session with some drills on untaped targets.... Other tricks: Paint some partials, and in the case of the horizontal or diagonal hard cover targets, outline what's left of the A-zone to get you comfortable shooting for that, not for the center of the available Brown. No one wants Charlie-Delta targets..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John2A Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 When I dry fire I have a 3 targets I use. One that has the full A zone outlined with black duct tape one that has the A zone cut in a diagonal say about 25% of the A zone showing one that has 4 inches of the top of the A zone showing. When I live fire practice I do about the same thing. I also will shoot them in different positions sideways 15 degree slant so that my mind has an easier time distinguishing the A zone when it comes to match time. I have noticed that my hits have improved dramactically and I tend to have more A's and C's then D's and Misses. I have done the same thing with the Classic target and notice unless it is off center I have better success with those as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 That's one of those other things that ought to be practiced --- targets at an angle to the shooting position. The more extreme the angle, the narrower the A-zone.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob D Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 One of the targets I use for dry-fire has the A Zone outlined. I just used Painters tape to go all the way around the border. I cut the tape so that it fits INSIDE the A zone and not around the A zone. I first did this because I was unfamiliar with the IPSC target and wanted to get a feel for where the A zone actually was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Filishooter Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 (edited) Seems like that might be too much contrast for me. I'm guessing I would probably subconsciously see that as a strange shaped plate or popper vs an A-zone. If you want to paint it, I'd try a slightly lighter (or darker) cardboard brown color so if you squint your eyes it still looks like a regular target, but if your really look at it you can define the A-zone. You could get different shades of brown to increase or decrease contrast as needed starting with a strong contrast and working it down to a normal target. But thats just MHO! Edited December 30, 2008 by Filishooter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cy Soto Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 I also like putting 4 inch (~10cm) square stickers in the top part of the A-zone. I put a square sticker inthe top of the A box. Gentlemen, Why do you put the square sticker on the upper part of the A zone? Why not on the center of the A zone? Thanks! -Cy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted December 31, 2008 Share Posted December 31, 2008 I also like putting 4 inch (~10cm) square stickers in the top part of the A-zone. I put a square sticker inthe top of the A box. Gentlemen, Why do you put the square sticker on the upper part of the A zone? Why not on the center of the A zone? Thanks! -Cy Consistent aiming area. No shoots and hard cover. Plus...many yank their shots low anyway. When we see partial targets, when are generally given a presentation that still gives us most of the upper part of the A-zone. So, practice aiming for the upper half...and you have a consistent area that you aim for (most often). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted December 31, 2008 Share Posted December 31, 2008 I usually have a fat magic marker in my range bag, btw. Of all the crap we carry to the range...a big marker ought to be in the mix. A roll of masking tape isn't a bad idea either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boz1911 Posted December 31, 2008 Share Posted December 31, 2008 I also like putting 4 inch (~10cm) square stickers in the top part of the A-zone. I put a square sticker inthe top of the A box. Gentlemen, Why do you put the square sticker on the upper part of the A zone? Why not on the center of the A zone? Thanks! -Cy Consistent aiming area. No shoots and hard cover. Plus...many yank their shots low anyway. When we see partial targets, when are generally given a presentation that still gives us most of the upper part of the A-zone. So, practice aiming for the upper half...and you have a consistent area that you aim for (most often). I understand the partial hardcover logic, but I would never prectice to correct for a "yank" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted December 31, 2008 Share Posted December 31, 2008 Aiming for the top center of the A zone takes no longer than aiming for the center of the A-zone..... The side benefit is that when you do yank a round down on a full target, it's likely to remain an alpha --- with some practice that becomes fairly easy to call..... So you're not practicing to correct for the yank, you're practicing to hit the part of the A-zone that is available on probably 95% of all paper targets....(most of the remaining 5% being upper A/B zones only...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 Bruce Gray introduced me to a concept called "negative targets" which means, basically, you cut out the highest scoring area of the target, i.e. A-zone on a USPSA target, -0 circle on an IDPA target. This has numerous advantages. For one, it makes it VERY obvious where the high scoring area is on the target, rather than just "aiming for the brown". For two, it cuts down on a HELL of a lot of target taping. Really, if you're doing things right, you should never have to tape a bullet hole. And since, when shooting on paper targets, it seems like we spend most of the practice session taping bullet holes, anything we can do that almost eliminates this necessity is a good thing, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cy Soto Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 This "negative target" concept is interesting but IMO it makes it harder to confirm the shots as you called them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seth Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 As I'm starting to learn, if you call you shot you don't need visual confirmation. I am getting a lot closer to understanding what it means to not have to walk the stage to see if I screwed up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 I prefer to practice on whole targets - the feedback presented by seeing the holes in the target where I called the shot is valuable to me. Its further confirmation that everything is working as it should. YMMV. I practice on real hardcover targets (in dry fire and live fire - though usually, they're actually no-shoot partials). I don't buy in to "consistent aiming point" or aiming high on the A-zone always to correct for poor shooting technique. I want to identify the high scoring zone on the target and drive the gun into it in the most expedient way possible, using the largest piece of the high scoring zone I can find (biasing away from penalties, if possible) - that requires being aware of the high scoring zone. I also want to be able to pick out a specific piece of that scoring zone to shoot into, regardless of the target presentation - so I shoot at random partials, some of which leave only the lower part of the A-zone, etc. If I can't rely on hitting a certain reasonable surface on the target because I have no trigger control, I better go work on my trigger control... The A-zone outline helps burn in where the A-zone actually is, so when you see that wide open target at 15+ yards, and can't see the perfs anymore, you know where to put the gun to hit the A-zone, rather than random hosing at brown. After you know that - pick out exactly where you want to hit on the target, put the gun there, pull the trigger correctly, and call the shot. Obviously, just my opinion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cy Soto Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 (edited) I prefer to practice on whole targets - the feedback presented by seeing the holes in the target where I called the shot is valuable to me. Its further confirmation that everything is working as it should. YMMV. That's what I meant to say. It's time... HAPPY NEW YEAR!!! Edited January 1, 2009 by Cy Soto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seth Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 Cy, Please don't mistake my comments as criticism. Like so many of us here, I'm here as a student. I participate to learn and (I assume) share a common passion. The more I take shooting seriously, the more I find myself enjoying it. S. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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