Introduction and need some honest feedback...

[makomachine]

Hello all! New to the forum and a new handgun shooter as well. I've got quite a bit of time in with rifle and shotgun recreational shooting but had never really shot a handgun until recently. (I've owned a few - but have less than 100 rounds experience) With that said, I've decided to pick up the handgun and possibly do some competition shooting for fun. My initial interest was in 3 gun shooting, but frankly I'm just getting started in looking to see what's out there and the differences between them. I'm not looking to get a 'target gun' but wanted to compete in stock handgun/tactical type shooting.

Given this, I've recently purchased a new SA XDM 9mm based on how it felt in the hand and shot at the local range. The gun just 'felt' right to me and I shot it better than any of the other guns I've tried to date - G19, 92FS, M&P9, and Sig 226. I've never had any formal training but am signing up for a one-on-one shooting lesson as well as the Oklahoma Self Defense Act Safety Course at my local gun range. I've also ordered the following from Brian's site as a starting point:

Burkett's Vol. 1-3 DVDs - Practical Shooting

Practical Shooting, Beyond Fundamentals

Some Slide Glide for the new gun

I went to the range this weekend and put ~ 250 rounds through the new gun and below is the last 19 rounds shot of the day at 12 - 13 yards, slow fire from the XDM.

This was my best group but most of them were in this 'ballpark' after the first 100 rounds through the gun. Slightly high, right seemed to be a trend.

I'm looking for some HONEST feedback from the group as I really have nothing to baseline my shooting on at this point. Nobody I know shoots a handgun so I really have no idea how well or 'not so well' I'm doing given this. Is this a good group for a beginner and do I have any business thinking about shooting in organized matches in the near future? I know I have a lot of work in getting my speed and accuracy respectable but just trying to understand where I'm at as it relates to the beginner shooters in these events. I really want some honest feedback and appreciate your advice on next steps for me as a new shooter. Thanks!

Now to close with a picture of my new baby! Look forward to being a contributing member of the community!

Edited December 29, 2008 by makomachine

[steveyacht]

Greeting and Welcome!! That is a nice group for being fairly new to handgun shooting! I would be proud to have a group like that from 13 yards. If you were to let us all know where you are from will be helpful. There may be a menber of this board farily close that you could shoot with. Ya never know!

[makomachine]

Thanks for the welcome and the feedback! I'm just getting my profile updated and it now shows my location: Tuttle, Oklahoma. I also failed to mention that I'm right handed but left eye dominant. Given this, I shoot the handgun southpaw and it's quite natural for me given how I've shot rifles/shotguns all my life. Not sure if that makes a difference, but it's something 'unique' about me!

I corrected my original post as I obviously can't tell my left to right! Should have read "high right was a trend" - not high left!

Edited December 29, 2008 by makomachine

[Paul Burtchell]

Well you can tell by the photos that you have the basics of sight alignment/trigger control down pretty darn well.

[betterment]

Read Brian's book and get a hold of Steve Anderson's book Refinement and Repetition. Then start practicing and start going faster... practice getting your reloads smooth (fast will come once you achieve smooth). Keep us up to date, maybe start a range diary on the board.

Phil

[Matt Griffin]

Thanks for the welcome and the feedback! I'm just getting my profile updated and it now shows my location: Tuttle, Oklahoma. I also failed to mention that I'm right handed but left eye dominant. Given this, I shoot the handgun southpaw and it's quite natural for me given how I've shot rifles/shotguns all my life. Not sure if that makes a difference, but it's something 'unique' about me!

I corrected my original post as I obviously can't tell my left to right! Should have read "high right was a trend" - not high left!

Ah, that makes a big difference in troubleshooting a problem, that you're shooting lefty instead of righty. I'm a natural lefty myself, and high-weakside isn't the most common problem (that would be low-weakside, caused by overgripping and bad trigger press) but it isn't that rare. Usually the weakside movement is due to too much finger on the trigger or your hand gripping tighter at the moment of trigger break, or both. Dryfire is where you can train this out, so go to the range and run 10-20 dryfires with the gun, trying to keep the sights from moving when you break the shot. Then try live fire, and see if the first few shots are perfect, and then they start wandering.

Lastly, try gripping the gun 70% with your right hand, so that your left can work freely.

H.

[makomachine]

I'm guessing the training DVD's might have something on gripping the gun. When you say "gripping the gun 70% with the right hand", is there a picture on positioning for that or is it more about tension in the hand vs the primary shooting hand? Definintely need to get some dryfiring practice in as I think that will be a big help.

[Matt Griffin]

Tension. The more strength you pour into the strong (trigger) hand, the more your fingers will move sympathetically during the trigger press. So load up more in your weak hand and let the strong hand feel loose in your grip. After your brain becomes "trained" to pull the trigger without disturbing other muscles, you'll likely find your grip evening out closer to 50/50, but a big difference at the beginning will highlight what you're looking for, trigger-press-wise. For positioning, do a bit of searching on "weak hand" and you'll find a bunch of pictures.

H.

Edited January 1, 2009 by Duane Thomas

[makomachine]

Thanks - will do a search on weak hand and see what comes up. Haven't received my shipping confirmation on the videos yet but assuming they will be shipping shortly. I'm going to also look into getting a shot timer as well but need to research that more. Appreciate the input and keep the suggestions coming!

[Flexmoney]

The trigger needs to come straight back into the gun. It looks like, at the very end of the trigger stroke, you are getting a bit of side pressure on the trigger...pushing your shots to the weak side a little bit. (common...and you group and placement is pretty solid)

Dry fire, and at the moment that your press the trigger into the frame...notice if you are putting on any small amount of side pressure on the trigger. If so, play around with adjusting your strong hand and see where that takes you.

Again, nice shooting.

[makomachine]

Thanks! I'm guessing that's exactly what's happening and will work on it with my next dry firing session. It's a subtle thing that repetition will hopefully correct.

I'm looking into the USPSA events at the Oklahoma City Gun Club they have monthly and plan on 'sitting in' on one to see how things work. I've never been there and need to check out the facilities anyway and it's probably where I'd shoot these types events anyway when I'm ready. I've got a lot of work in front of me to be 'ready' however as I need to get some more time at the range to work on speed and consistency prior to then. I think the next match isn't til February however so that gives me some time to practice.

[SharonAnne9x23]

don't SIT IN, jump in!! Just let them know you are a newbie and you will have tons of help.

You join some very illustrious cross dominant shooters. Benos, TGO for 2!!!

[MemphisMechanic]

You should've bought a Glock.

A buddy just bought an XD for carry use, and asked me to come show him the ropes. I CANNOT SHOOT THE DAMN THING. I ran a target out to 25 yards, and every freaking round went high/right juuust a hair. I had a 5"ish group at 2 o'clock, just off the plate. Granted, this was a subcompact. But a Glock 19 doesn't have the same issues for me. 4 groups in the center of the target aren't a problem with my 34, all day long.

I hate XD triggers, and they hate me. I know what I'm doing wrong - I can see (and call) it in the sights as the shot breaks. But I only shoot one every year or so. I figure out how to break the shot with that crisp-but-heavy trigger... and then I have months to forget, and start all over.

Edited January 1, 2009 by MemphisMechanic

[Kyle O]

You might consider sandbagging that pistol just to make sure the sights don't need adjusting.

Your "high right" group may very well be dead on, but your sights are off.

Confirm this before changing anything about your technique, you may be doing everything right as it is a very good group.

[Bubber]

Thanks! I'm guessing that's exactly what's happening and will work on it with my next dry firing session. It's a subtle thing that repetition will hopefully correct.

I'm looking into the USPSA events at the Oklahoma City Gun Club they have monthly and plan on 'sitting in' on one to see how things work. I've never been there and need to check out the facilities anyway and it's probably where I'd shoot these types events anyway when I'm ready. I've got a lot of work in front of me to be 'ready' however as I need to get some more time at the range to work on speed and consistency prior to then. I think the next match isn't til February however so that gives me some time to practice.

makomachine, Come and sit in. But bring your gear, ammo and rig. The folks at the OKC gun Club are helpful and friendly and I know you will kick yourself for not shooting when you see how much fun it is. Even if we do cuss ourselves from time to time. You will be given a safety briefing and a short sourse on the rules. Unka Ken is very knowledgeable when it comes to the USPSA Rule book and is very helpful. He usually shoots in the Revo Squad, even though there is only a few of us it is till the REVO Suad. Cya there, I'll be the short fat one you can't miss me. Later rdd

[Zerwas]

I'm not a huge fan of sandbagging to see if the sites are on for you. In fact, I don't recommend doing that at all. Every time I have done this and make the adjustments while shooting it on the sandbag rest, it will always be off when I shoot it off hand.

I like your target you have posted. The only thing I would suggest is tapping the rear site to the left a bit. Shoot it again, and be sure you have the top of the front site level with the top of the rear notch and try it again. I would try it at 20-25 yards and see where the bullets land. If you are still shooting just a little hi as your target shows I'd leave it. I don't see that your shooting all that high. It's better than shooting low. If it is much more at 20-25 yards, then I'd maybe look at getting a lower front site.

Never worry about speed at first. The accuracy must be there from the beginning, the speed will come with time and experience.

[Catfish]

Lots of good shooting and good shooters in your neck of the woods - as has been mentioned, go hit the local matches, watch who the better shooters are and then go pick their brains for information.

I have yet to meet someone in the sport - from D class to GM - who wouldn't share information with you if asked.

Welcome to the addiction!

[packapax]

Thats a conicidence. I got interested in uspsa about 2months ago and just ordered my own xdm 9mm ss/od. I'm glad to see that i'm not the only one who likes the od.My xdm will be here here saturday so i'll have to give you a report to compare after i visit the range.i'm in West Virginia and my local gun club is only in it's second year of uspsa, i hope i can findsome expirienced people there to help.

[makomachine]

OK - You've all talked me into it. Think I'll just shoot the first match rather than just 'sit in'. Worst case scenario is I learn A LOT and make a fool of myself - which isn't anything new.

With that said, I've done some research and think I'm going to be shooting "Production" given my stock set up with the XDM 9mm. After searching until my brain explodes, I'm struggling with my initial holster, belt, and mag pouch purchase to get me started. '

Belt: The belt seems to be an easy one - with the CR Speed Belt seeming to be a solid recommendation by most and I believe 'legal' in the Production, SS, and Limited if I decide to expand with different guns and modifications down the road. Correct?

Holster: I'm needing a LH holster and was considering the following based on what I've seen recommended -

First Choice: Blade Tech DOH Dropped & Offset Holster-SR Loop

Second Choice: SRB (Sting Ray Belt Holster)IDPA Approved

I've read good things about the DOH holsters but read conflicting info as to whether they are legal for Production. Can I use the DOH in production? Also, there are two types of DOH holsters - the SR Loop and W/ Tech Lock. What's the difference? I listed the SR Loop as I see a version listed specifically for the XDM 9mm - the "W/ Tech Lock version appears to be only with the 40. Any clarification or help here is appreciated as I'd like to get a good holster that will serve my needs in Production and can also be used in Limited if I decided to go that route.

Mag Pouches: I'm stumped here. I haven't made any phone calls but the XDM is such a new configuration, I don't see it listed in the compatibility listings for the major players. I was considering getting the individual CR Mag pouches - so I can change my configuration a bit if I decided to shoot Limited - but I'm not sure they will work with the XDM. Any suggestions here?

Appreciate the suggestions and encouragement. I'm already getting excited and watched the Burkett videos today. Can't wait to get started and need to get my kit together to do some work on fundamentals like reloads and drawing. Appreciate the advice!!!

[NSiess]

mako, welcome. production is a good choice, so is the gear youve looked into. before you buy all that gear you might want to see if someone from the club or forum has some gear you can borrow. people in this sport are strangely happy to let you borrow their stuff. it might save you some cash as you find your preferences. either way, the cr speed belt and bladetech doh are great and production legal. tek lok is a clamp that holds the holster to the belt as opposed to a belt loop. its personal preference and doesnt really matter that much because both are fine but you can buy the tek lok seperately if want. you can put velcro to mate with the cr belt so either attachment is more secure. someone else will have to comment if xd mags fitting into cr speed pouches, i bet they do though. if you wanted to save a few bucks im sure fobus makes a pouch for xd mags. buy two doubles and you'll spend about the same as one cr speed pouch! in the end i bet youll end up with a cr speed belt, blade tech DOH, and 5 cr speed pouches, its all fairly standard gear. good luck

-N

[Matt Griffin]

You'll wind up at the DOH eventually, so you might as well grab one now. The tec-lock isn't the greatest technology, the little lock thingies fall out immediately, and you shouldn't need to remove the holster anyway.

For mag pouches, I run two CR Speeds backed up by a Bladetech double pouch ($15). This covers almost all courses of fire, and lets you have the optimal setup for limited, where you will almost never need more than two extra mags. When shooting L10, on a crazy 32 round course with a ton of positions I add a second double pouch "just in case."

For belts, the CR and the Double Alpha outer belts are nearly identical, the CR inner is much thicker but can be difficult with certain belt loops. The AA inner is very thin.

H.

[Duane Thomas]

I'm not a huge fan of sandbagging to see if the sites are on for you. In fact, I don't recommend doing that at all. Every time I have done this and make the adjustments while shooting it on the sandbag rest, it will always be off when I shoot it off hand.

I am a huge fan of benching the gun to get the sights dialed-in. For one thing, it tends to factor out trigger control errors which can save an immense amount of self-delusion thereafter. If, after you've got the gun hitting POI/POA from the bench, you then find the bullets aren't hitting freestyle where you think you're aiming them, you know it's not the sights or the gun - it's you. And you can then funnel your energies where they need to go: into improving trigger control.

[Duane Thomas]

You'll wind up at the DOH eventually, so you might as well grab one now.

That depends on whether you want a strictly competition holster, or you want something you can use for competition and concealed carry. I fall into the latter camp, thus I've always run a Blade-Tech Standard Belt Holster, not the DOH. Considering my best timed close range draw and fire ran .86 second, I don't think the SBH is holding me back immensely.

[makomachine]

You'll wind up at the DOH eventually, so you might as well grab one now.

That depends on whether you want a strictly competition holster, or you want something you can use for competition and concealed carry. I fall into the latter camp, thus I've always run a Blade-Tech Standard Belt Holster, not the DOH. Considering my best timed close range draw and fire ran .86 second, I don't think the SBH is holding me back immensely.

Duane - I thought I read somewhere that the DOH holster could be converted to the SBH holster. Maybe I'm getting all my research mixed up as I'm in a little information overload, but thought I read that somwhere.

Regardless, probably doesn't matter at this point as I've ordered the DOH from Blade Tech today and probably won't ever CC the XDM. Have confirmation pending from CR Speed that their mag pouches will support the XDM 9. Got an e-mail saying they'd never checked that gun and they took the dimensions of the mags from me and just waiting on a reply. Once I get that reply, I'll be placing my order with Shooters Connection for the CR Speed Belt and 5 single Versa Pouches. Got the blessing from the wife this afternoon so want to jump on that quickly - along with some other goodies she told me to go ahead and pickup (below)!

What snap caps does everyone use for their 9mm dry firing exercises? I haven't found a 'glowing' review on any one brand and was going to pull the trigger (see what I did there?) on the A-Zoom Aluminum 5 pk but thought I'd check to see if anyone had a preference or negative experience with them. Also considering purchase on a timer as well and am leaning towards the Competition Electronics Pocket Pro II Shot Timer in Desert Tan. I like the fact I can change the batteries, which is my only reason for picking it over the CED 7000. Both seem to get great reviews - any strong opinions on that subject either?

Edited January 2, 2009 by makomachine

[Duane Thomas]

The A-Zooms are great, though frankly, as a general rule, I don't use snap caps.