What a range facility would need to do a Nat's match

[Chills1994]

At one point I had thought that the World Recreation Shooting Sports Complex in Sparta, IL would be a good place to hold a big match. People could fly into St. Louis's Lambert International Airport and then drive over to Sparta.

See?? Twelve bays, all nicely cut in:

But I tried to get something started there. The Ill-annoyed DNR runs it. They were all hot and heavy to get something in there, well besides the 3,000 + trap shooters who shoot the Grand there every summer now.

Then they started giving me the cold shoulder, and then they said "your bullets go too fast."

[Jim Norman]

Area Matches can run 8 - 10 stages in one day or half day format and we can get easily over 300 shooters through. But there are several situations here that won't work for a Nationals.

All the shooters do not shoot every day, with only 10 stages you are more or less limited to 160 shooters if you want everyone there each day. Figure 8 man squads x 10 stages x 2 flights. You need a greater number of stages in order to accommodate a Nationals. A minimum of 18 stages. Figure 6 stages a day with AM/PM Squadding, you get 10 on a squad, this allows for 360 shooters. Just won't work with fewer stages. Well not really, we could have nine stages and 20 per squad and shoot all day with WAY TOO MUCH time just sitting around.

Jim

[kgunz11]

Area 6 had 335 shooters last year over 12 stages and I don't remember having to wait on a squad at any stage.

[Charles Bond]

Ranges in Area 6 that meet the earlier criteria are River Bend Gun Club in North Georgia, South River Gun Club in Conyers, GA, Garcia Range in Frost Proof, FL and Steel City in Birimingham, AL. Each of these could put on 18 stages but there would need to be some doubling up and creative rifle range alterations at South River. All of the rest could put on more than 18 stages. All of these ranges have plenty of qualified people to walk point for USPSA and of course all of these venues are near major airports. Atlanta, Birmingham, and of course Orlando have plenty to interesting things to do aside from shooting.

Having the facilities are one thing. Getting the ranges interested in making a proposal to USPSA for the nationals is another.

Charles

Edited December 17, 2008 by Charles Bond

[LChico]

Area 6 had 335 shooters last year over 12 stages and I don't remember having to wait on a squad at any stage.

You and Jim are comparing apples and oranges. The Northeast & Mid Atlantic states have many big matches where you shoot the entire 10 to 12 stage match in a half day. Small squads. You are on the range either in the morning, or the afternoon, and then you are done. Easier to get the time off, fewer nights in a hotel, etc.

Area 6 had six squads that were scheduled to shoot all day Saturday (8:00 am until 6:50 pm), six squads that shot Saturday am plus Sunday am & six squads that were scheduled for Saturday pm plus Sunday am. Squads are bigger, and everyone is on the range for between 11 to 12 hours total time. While this is a very popular format for the Southeast, it goes over like a lead balloon in the Northeast & Mid Atlantic states. Having worked and shot matches in both areas, I see some pretty big regional preferences.

Linda Chico (L-2035)

Columbia SC

[ima45dv8]

While there is no USPSA club at Steel City, {snip}

There is. Randall Webb has been running a USPSA match there on the 1st Saturday of the month for a while now. It's Steel City's newest discipline.

http://www.scssa.org/IPSC.htm

[SA Friday]

OK, so obviously the more berms the easier it is to run, set-up, etc, but what is the minimum amount of berms/stages that you could run a nationals with? Could you do two sets of stages on 9 berms over a 4 day period? Run 9 stages, swap them out half way through and then run the second set of 9 stages?

I just don't see that working, but I saw some interesting scheduling at Summer Blast this year that I never thought of before. Are all the stages set-up in their own berm/area for the whole match at every Nationals or has staff rotated out the stages at a nationals before as I mentioned above?

[LPatterson]

OK, so obviously the more berms the easier it is to run, set-up, etc, but what is the minimum amount of berms/stages that you could run a nationals with? Could you do two sets of stages on 9 berms over a 4 day period? Run 9 stages, swap them out half way through and then run the second set of 9 stages?

I just don't see that working, but I saw some interesting scheduling at Summer Blast this year that I never thought of before. Are all the stages set-up in their own berm/area for the whole match at every Nationals or has staff rotated out the stages at a nationals before as I mentioned above?

Anything is possible with enough people and time because the stages were fundamentally different at the LPR/OL10. The main problem is getting enough people at the home club willing to commit the time necessary for the preparation and the range willing to close for setup and teardown.

[Jim Norman]

You need to make certain decisions. Does everyone have to be present to shoot the match for the entire time?

Can we do as Summer Blast does and shoot the match in one day per group? I shoot on Thursday and it is 65 degrees and sunny, you soot on Sunday and it is 45 degrees windy and raining and the guys on Friday got hit with a surprise heatwave and shot in 90 plus degrees and humidity.

So far we have as long as I have been shooting, had everyone shoot every day. THis way we are all present the last day for awards and prize table.

Also, if we built say 9-10 stages and had everyone shoot them in two days, and then "Flipped" them over to have another 9-10 and everyone shoots again, we'd not have the 18-20 places to squad shooters that we currently have. Essentially we would have to put everyone on 10 stages, over two days. With 360 shooters, that means 36 shooters per squad! or 18 if we did AM/PM for 5 stages. Do the match, 5 minutes walk-through 5 minutes MINIMUM between stages and the what 3 minutes to shoot and reset at best? This equates to over 5.3 hours AM and 5.3 Hours PM allowing Lunch would mean we'd have staff out for about 12 hours a day! Anyone want to speculate on whether or not we'd get many volunteers for that? First shot at 8AM, last shot about 8PM assuming no reshoots faluts or gaffs!

Then somewhere after the last shot on Day Two and the First Shot on Day Three the elves come in and rebuild the entire match so we can all shoot for two more days.

Sorry but this just ain't a gonna fly.

You want 18 stages? You need 18 stages. Yes you can double up a couple, but that will reduce your available slots. IE, put two short courses, 8-9 shots no movement in one pit and offset it against chrono. You still have 18 time slots available, 10 shooters each AM and PM. This can be done. Approximately 40 minutes per squad IF the stages are close together like in Tulsa. Your shooting schedule is 0800- 1200, Lunch 1200-1300, then PM Squads 1300-1700. 360 shooters.

Want one really complex stage that takes 5 minutes to shoot, reset and get ready? your match just went to 6 hour rotations! 0800-1400 lunch the 1500-2100. Not gonna happen. Stages must be run, reset and ready to run in 3 minutes to make the match flow with 10 on a squad. And no one better need to hit the head!

Toss in a little bit of rain or mud or wind or cold or.... and you get trashed.

Of course I could be wrong, maybe you can run 400 shooters through a 20 stage match in three days but I don't see it happening.

Jim

[sslav]

Understood, I figured that many would either prefer to stay home or watch the match

Watching USPSA matches is like watching paint dry for non-participants. Having nearby attractions for spouse/kids is pretty important.

[Chuck Anderson]

South River and Rio Salado are a bit small for a National event. It would probably also be an issue to shut them down for 7-10 days to build the stages, shoot the match and teardown. If it was simply a matter of fitting stages in and parking a lot of ranges could do it.

Area 6:

Limited = 118

Limited 10 = 34

Production = 62

Open = 91

Single Stack = 25

Revolver = 5

______________

335 shooters total

The Open/Lim10 Nats had 383 shooters.

The Limited/Production/Revolver Nats had 395 shooters.

There's only 60 shooters difference and over 3 days that would only be 20 more shooters per day. Make the match 14 stages and your other 20 shooters now have a home. Two more squads in two more stages. I have never been to Rio, but my wife has. The only problem I see with setting up 12 stages at South River and hosting the Nats there is the guys that shoot multiple Divisions would be shooting the same COF twice and might have somewhat of an advantage over those that only shoot 1 Nationals Division.

Now talking Cindy/Bill and crew into hosting a Nationals event at South River might be a totally different hurdle. With the fluidity that they have been running Area 6 it might not be that big of an issue for them.

That's a 12 stage match as opposed to an 18+ stage Nationals. It's easier to feed shooters through a 12 stage than an 18 stage match. Area 6 also doesn't have all shooters on the range at the same time, which typically Nationals do. Especially at the crossover periods. There is not suffiicient parking or bays at South River for a National match, at least not that I saw the last several Area 6 matches I shot there.

[Chuck Anderson]

Having a fixed week for Nationals doesn't work without a fixed location. November in Arizona rocks, November in Oregon does not. July in Oregon rocks, July in Arizona...less so. The same can be said for any location USPSA chooses. Most of the locations a Nationals would be held have a sweet spot for weather. If you fix the weekend of Nationals without fixing a location you are going to severely limit choices.