Is there a mag capacity limit in Open?

[hartzpad]

Just got my 20 round drum for my Saiga 12 and wondering if I can even use the drum in matches. My local club is IDPA affiliated but also holds 3 Gun matches with no "official" sanctioning body. My club's 3 Gun rules have no magazine capacity limit in Open. Do any of the sanctioning bodies have mag capacity limits in Open division or does anything go?

Using the drum seems like it would be close to cheating considering how fast the Saiga 12 is with 10 round mags.

[steel1212]

Because I have to much on my mind and was WRONG!! Open = 10+1 in shotgun sorry.

Edited December 9, 2008 by steel1212

[hartzpad]

If you can use a 40-50-beta in limited why wouldn't you be allowed to use a 20 round drum on your shotgun....especially in open? Now just check your rules before you go to a match as many places have different rules.

I had read somewhere that USPSA had some rule about 11 rounds max even in shotgun Open class but there was some speculation that that rule was old and came out during the '94-'04 AWB. Someone else told me that you could only start with 10+1 rounds in your shotgun in Open. I don't think I'll have a problem.

[SharonAnne9x23]

USPSA/IPSC. no round limit, just length of magazines. So, 'Run-Whacha-Brung' and ENJOY!!!!

[uscbigdawg]

Open shotgun is 10+1 (Appendix D1, 2008 Shotgun Rules).

Rich

[kellyn]

10+1 is USPSA Open. You need to carefully check the rules of whatever match you are going to attend.

[hartzpad]

The Following are the only rules for Shotgun Open division at my local match:

5.4.5 Open Division (O)

A. No limitations on accessories or optics.

B. Box-fed magazines are allowed.

C. Shotgun speedloaders are allowed, however, they must be the new primer-relief-cut type, or old style that have been modified with the primer-relief cut.

D. Use of old style shotgun speedloaders without the primer relief cut will result in match disqualification.

Looks like I'm good to go with the drum. It's kind of like cheating, if I get too many boo's, I'll go back to the 10 rounders which are plenty fast to reload.

[EkuJustice]

Probibally wont hear many complaints, but if you start winning with one expect there to be a mag limit in later shoots lol

[TRUBL]

OPEN CLASS Magazine limits:

USPSA: 10+1 max

IPSC: not sure

IMGA: Some are 10+1, some 10+1 to start, some are no limit (true open)

Tim

[uscbigdawg]

You're right Kelly. That said...be afraid of the slug drills.

Rich

[IPSCDRL]

OPEN CLASS Magazine limits:

USPSA: 10+1 max

IPSC: not sure

IMGA: Some are 10+1, some 10+1 to start, some are no limit (true open)

Tim

Tim, What is this "OPEN CLASS" You speak of?

[mikegot38]

OPEN CLASS Magazine limits:

USPSA: 10+1 max

IPSC: not sure

IMGA: Some are 10+1, some 10+1 to start, some are no limit (true open)

Tim

Tim, What is this "OPEN CLASS" You speak of?

Optics, speed loaders and/or box fed magazines

[kurtm]

IPSC: I am sure.

Open is OPEN any and all things go with regards to capacity, drums, Long tubes, Multiple tubes ETC! KurtM

[kellyn]

That is what Open SHOULD be but not necessarily is.

[philg80]

I have been shooting a saiga in a USPSA sanctioned club for years now. The rule states 10+1 is the mag limit on START. If you want to start with a stick mag and then reload with the drum you can in USPSA. IPSC there is no limit. Several use a MOLOT VEPR that is virtually the same as a saiga, but they have "frankenmaged" two 8rd mags into 16 rounders. Non USPSA or IPSC just follows the club rules. Some have no limits and some say the gun can hold "no more than X number of rounds" and some limit the length of the tube like we do with pistol magazines. Hope this helps.

[EkuJustice]

The rule book sitting right in front of me from the USPSA says 10+1 MAX not 10+1 on the start

[philg80]

Rule 8.1.4 states "Unless complying with a division requirement, rule 8.1.1, or a "load one,shoot one" stage, a competitor must not be restricted on the number of rounds to be loaded or reloaded in a shotgun." This is also noted under appendix D. Otherwise, in a match, how would you know how many rounds a tube guy loads INTO his gun on the move. Several shooters put 10 round tubes on their Tactical or Limited shotgun, but only load to 9 total. Others that like to shoot Open and either Tactical or Limited use the same shotgun for both divisions and just download and not use their speed loaders. I also know of a few competitors whose guns hold 13-14 rounds and after the buzzer have stuffed more shells in their gun. When I took my RO class a couple of years ago, I specifically asked this question of my NROI intructor, Carl Schmidt, who helped in the writing of these rules. I am already shooting Open, what more do you people want? There is no other division to bump a competitor to if his gun holds more than 11 magical rounds. I am currently the only Saiga shooter at my club and they still design stages that hinder the use of a Saiga to where it doesn't really give any advantage on most stages. Please tell me that most tube fed shotgunners can load 1-2 rounds on a 12-13 round stage faster than I can reload a whole magazine for 1 or 2 shots. I have even taken the miss on some stages for this extra shot just because the time to change mags would have been more of a penalty.

[THM7]

Looking at the rules for the 2009' SSM3g I could not see any restrictions on mag capacity for shotgun. Did I miss something??

[Greg Q]

The new Surefire Saiga 12 magazines we sell actually hold 13 rounds. I look forward to using these at our next match.

Greg

[EkuJustice]

What 8.1.4 appears to show is you cant say you can only load 4 shells at a time or the gun has to start loaded with less than division capacity. The division requirement says 10+1 Maximum, how is that whatever you can cram in the gun? It does not say, 10+1 on the buzzer, 10+1 on the start it says 10+1 Maximum which would mean no more than 11 total or 10 if it is an empty chamber start(similar to production 10 in mag + barney, unloaded start you cant load 11 in the mag and barney it up on the load.

[kurtm]

Yes there is a division to bump you into if it "ever" holds more than 11...matter of fact there are two. One division is the "Shoot for no score" division, and the other division is the "unsportsman like" division. Now that is JUST for USPSA...IPSC and "outlaw" 3-gun say open is open...as much as you want. KurtM

[RH45]

You really have to check the rules at every match, other than a USPSA match.

I'm pretty sure that the "Wisconsin" 3-gun match rules are set up like DPMS where anything goes for open class and tactical only has to be limited to 10 at the START. I'm pretty sure "TRUBL" had like a 15 round tube on his 20 gauge at DPMS this year and was shooting tactical, but, only added more than 10 rounds after the start signal.

Edited December 20, 2008 by RH45