45Fundi Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 (edited) In my earlier thread about Non-Wood Grips a tangent was started that I thought should be in a new thread, so here it is. Do your grips make a difference or are they just "hand filler"? Joe4D says, "Grips are basically just hand filler and really dont amount to a hole lot of difference. Most of your control is in the frontstrap and msh. If you think a geewiz wizbang space age fiber bonded xenontonian will make you a better shooter than plain ole $12 checkered wood or rubber uncle mike panels you'll be disapointed. If you want them becaause they are cool I cant argue with you there I have all kinds of cool looking grips, everything from Blue Carbon fiber to nude girl schrimshaw none of them work any better or worse than checkered wood". My response, "I agree and disagree with you. Agree for the most part, but 'eventually' a BALANCE OF TACTIILITY 360 degrees around the grip is important. The more you reduce the tactile grippiness (tactility) of the front and back strap you may have to increase the tactility of the sides (your grip panels), so depending on your hands fleshiness or lack of fleshiness, grip strength and how you you choose to adjust the pressure in different places on your grip in both the strong (operational) hand and the weak (support) hand...weak/support hand which many believe should actually be called your strong/support hand since it holds and drives the gun while the operational hand operates the controls means that for some of us (maybe not you or others), but for some us that the grip panels can make a large difference. When I started relaxing my right hand (I'm right handed shooter) and using my left/support hand to really hold and drive the gun my accuracy, recoil recovery, etc. improved. I've found (for me) that having highly tactile grip panels so that I am holding the gun more firmly SIDE-TO-SIDE pressure than front-to-back pressure settles the sights better and reduces recoil and slippage of my support hand. So, it is important to me that where my left palm makes contact with the grip panel is very important to me and how I shoot. This is my humble opinion and as always I'm very open to others opinions ideas." So, I need atleast my left grip panel to have high tactility whether its grip tape or checkering. For another I would guess as an example that if they were using 20 lpi checkering then they might be happy with smooth grips, but if they changed to 30 lpi checkering then they may need to add checkered grips to keep a balance of tactlity. Or if someone changed the pressure points in their grasping of the grip they would need more tactile areas on the spots they were now choosing to press on. How do your grips affect your shooting? Edited November 19, 2008 by 45Fundi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 An important part of my grip technique is side-to-side pressure with the support hand. That being the case, checkering on the side panels helps me out a lot. I want checkered gripping surfaces 360 degrees around the gun butt; that means a checkered frontstrap (or ladder tape), checkered mainspring housing, and sharply checkered grip panels, as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
45Fundi Posted November 20, 2008 Author Share Posted November 20, 2008 (edited) The side to side is what gives me the added control to settle my sights and control recoil. If my support hand stays with the gun things go well, if it slips at all things go from a little to a lot katty-wompis ;-) The grip grabbing back on my support hand makes the difference. Thats why in my Non-Wood Grips thread I was hoping for some critical analysis as what to get. Evidently I'm gonna probably just have to spend a lot of time and $$ trying out different grips until I find the right ones :-( I agree with Joe4D in that mentally being able to get the job done with any tool is a good mindset to have and I think there is something to be said for simplicity at times. I have know doubt that Pete Rose would have gotten hits with a barn slat, but would have gotten more and better hits with a bat that was custom set up for him. I shoot better when my gun fits me and fits my style and especially when I like my gun and this all only occurs with a judicious amount of custom tweeking ;-) Thanks for the reply! Edited November 20, 2008 by 45Fundi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 Just FYI, my favorite 1911 grips are the very sharply checkered, full coverage hardwood jobbies that Les Baer puts on his guns. I don't what company does them for him, but if anyone else out there does, please feel free to chime in. I'd love to find out, myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe4d Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 So let me see if I have this straight. You feel applying pressure to the center of a rotating object perpendicular to its rotation will provide more braking force than the same amount of force applied with leverage on opposite sides of the plane of rotation ? Gee that was a mouthful. anyway guns rotate when fired. Recoil is best controlled with forward pressure by the grip safety and rearward pressure at the bottom of the frontstrap. Granted enough side pressure can stop the rotation but it'll take way more force. Sorta like trying to turn a bolt by pushing your finger into the center of it really hard and turning. It can be done but it's much easier using a wrench that extends out some. You may have developed a grip that relies on side pressure and if it works for you so be it. But try some actual drills really concentrating on weakhand wrist lock. Applying most of your grip to the top of the grip safety and bottom of your weakhand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 I never said one was more important than the other. I feel they're both important. I want both front-to-rear and side-to-side traction working for me. I don't really care which is more important, I'll just take both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Religious Shooter Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 Grip/Grit tape makes a HUUUUGGEEEE difference for me. HUUUUUGGGGGGEEEEEEEE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VegasOPM Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 I have really dry hands. Dry to the point that anything smooth or slippery squirms around like a vasaline coated eel in a tub of mayo. I have to have either tacky, sharply checkered or super rough surfaces everywhere that my hands contact the grip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
45Fundi Posted November 22, 2008 Author Share Posted November 22, 2008 (edited) Joe4d again I agree and disagree You need the front back strap pressure just as you say and in a perfect world that would work, but some of us can not grasp the grip with our firing hand firm enough to control the gun as well as we like and simultaneously operate controls/trigger smoothly and also still have settled/steady sights, so we need to RELAX our firing hand a bit (often in different places) to allow settled/steady sights and smooth trigger manipulation. This means the support hand must take up the slack in controlling and driving the gun... and just pulling the gun strait back into firing hand isn't as efficient as also squeezing the gun between your hands (heels of your hands) and thus having a more 360 degree lock and it squeezes the gun "more fully into more surface area of your firing hand" all while taking some muscle stress off of the hand that is operating the controls...these controls that need to be operated without muscles spasming causing shakes ruining your sight picture and trigger pull. This is what I was taught and it has improved my shooting dramatically. Is it the right way? There is no right way, but there are better "WAYS" and this is the better way for me right now, but I'm always open to any and all well intentioned advice Edited November 22, 2008 by 45Fundi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Focus Posted December 1, 2008 Share Posted December 1, 2008 Buy the sick on sand paper and put that on over some over size grip panels if you have large hands and you're set. You can even buy VERY aggressive stuff at like HomeDepo and it works like a charm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Gundry Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 I agree that the most control comes from just the frontstrap and the backstrap, but, there's just something about having the entire skin of my hand 'stuck' to the gun that just makes it feel 'right'. If it ain't sharp checkered, it better be covered in skate tape (or TruGrip for complex curves) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighVelocity Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 I like front strap and the bottom half of the left grip to be EXTRA grippy. Grip tape, very aggressive checkering etc etc. The rest of the gun can be smooth, it doesn't matter to me. As for cosmetics, I really like the Davidson's horned lizzard grips. They're COOL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boz1911 Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 I like front strap and the bottom half of the left grip to be EXTRA grippy. Grip tape, very aggressive checkering etc etc. The rest of the gun can be smooth, it doesn't matter to me.As for cosmetics, I really like the Davidson's horned lizzard grips. They're COOL. I just recently added skateboard tape to the left side of my magwell. I realized my fat weak hand was wallowing around the magwell on my open gun. I don't know any results with livefire but I can feel a difference during dryfire practice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seth Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 Don't tell a set of disc brakes that they're inefficient because they grab from the sides instead of the front and back. I personally think that the grip is personal and while there are aspects of each style of gripping that can be used effectively, my personal size and shape don't necessarily translate to a certain taught style. I use what works best for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jman Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 My G17 grip surfaces are bare stock. Me thinks that grips can be to grippy (is that a word?) Personnel preference I'm sure. Try shooting your 9's without it for a few matches. Might be surprised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19852 Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 I like a grippy surface also. I use Hogue rubber grips w/ finger groves for my CZ , I like the Pachmeyer wrap arounds for my Colt for their grip tackiness but dislike them during mag changes. I need to experiment with grip tape. Duane: I remember reading that Jerry Miculek liked a slippery grip to let him adjust while shooting? Do I remember correctly? For that reason I like the Colt serrated MSH that alows the hand to slip upward into the grip safety. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Focus Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 Like he said it's all personal preference, but I do like it grippy... Theres NO single right way to do anything in this sport, just remember that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steel1212 Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 Put a set of soooooper smooth grips on your gun, now go shoot some factory carry loads. now take a set of Diamond Back grips from VZ grips or similar and go shoot the same loads. I do think it makes a difference. All my competition guns have Diamond Back grips and I want to get the front strap checkered on all of them, but that will take awhile, I have several :-). My carry TRP has front strap checkering but I use smooth grips on it so that it doesn't grab clothing or my skin and it still works out in the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSabbath Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 (edited) A wise old bullseye shooter told me once the three most important things on a gun are: 1. Grips 2. Sights 3. Trigger Grips are like the tires on a race car. It's where the rubber meets the road, if you will. You wouldn't buy a $250,000.00 hot-rod and put re-treads on it. Put some thought into what feels good in your hands. Imagine the countless hours Jerry Miculek put into his signature grips. They fit his hands perfectly. I bought a pair and honed them down for my hands and it makes a tremendous difference. And, it's not just in recoil management, either. When I remove material from the front-strap it changes the pitch of the muzzle when it comes out of the holster radically. I remove enough material so that when I present the gun to the target the front sight comes into the rear without overshooting it, thus a quicker, more accurate first shot. It also affects my first shot coming out of a reload. The same is true whether we're talking semi, or revolver. The big gun makers know this and have started shipping interchangeable backstraps with their guns. Grips are a huge piece to the shooting puzzle, and this barely touches on it. Hope this helps. Edited December 2, 2008 by BlackSabbath Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
45Fundi Posted December 2, 2008 Author Share Posted December 2, 2008 Yeah Baby, thats what I'm talking about. Tires & Disc Brakes great metaphors A wise old bullseye shooter told me once the three most important things on a gun are:1. Grips 2. Sights 3. Trigger Grips are like the tires on a race car. It's where the rubber meets the road, if you will. You wouldn't buy a $250,000.00 hot-rod and put re-treads on it. Put some thought into what feels good in your hands. Imagine the countless hours Jerry Miculek put into his signature grips. They fit his hands perfectly. I bought a pair and honed them down for my hands and it makes a tremendous difference. And, it's not just in recoil management, either. When I remove material from the front-strap it changes the pitch of the muzzle when it comes out of the holster radically. I remove enough material so that when I present the gun to the target the front sight comes into the rear without overshooting it, thus a quicker, more accurate first shot. It also affects my first shot coming out of a reload. The same is true whether we're talking semi, or revolver. The big gun makers know this and have started shipping interchangeable backstraps with their guns. Grips are a huge piece to the shooting puzzle, and this barely touches on it. Hope this helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JThompson Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 YES! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VegasOPM Posted December 3, 2008 Share Posted December 3, 2008 (edited) I recently tried an experiment that I am very happy with. While I was picking up some more Prince Grip at the sporting goods store I noticed the racquet grip tape. I used to love the stuff when I played racquetball, so I figured what the heck. Sure enough, it worked like a champ. $4 for 3 rolls and one roll will do the grips twice. Tacky, and makes the grips a little bigger- to fit my mitts better. The Prince grip is designed to work well on this stuff too. I have used it for 2 matches and several practice sessions and it isn't lossening up yet. Skateboard tape loads up too quickly for me- dry skin and all. Edited December 3, 2008 by VegasOPM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted December 4, 2008 Share Posted December 4, 2008 Duane: I remember reading that Jerry Miculek liked a slippery grip to let him adjust while shooting? Do I remember correctly? Yep. Of course, it's also worth noting that Jerry Miculek has such strong hands he could probably crush a lump of coal into a diamond. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steel1212 Posted December 4, 2008 Share Posted December 4, 2008 Duane: I remember reading that Jerry Miculek liked a slippery grip to let him adjust while shooting? Do I remember correctly? Yep. Of course, it's also worth noting that Jerry Miculek has such strong hands he could probably crush a lump of coal into a diamond. He could probably do it with his index finger alone! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimmyZip Posted December 4, 2008 Share Posted December 4, 2008 I use Pachmeyers without the middle piece. I like the front strap and backstrap smooth. (facilitates reloading for me too) I know that sounds contrary to some. It is what it is. I like the feel of my hand getting high on the gun, and can't do that with a tacky or grippy backstrap. I have tried the Hogue finger type grips, they are okay. I guess when you have been shooting Pachmeyers for as long as I have, everything else you try just feels foreign. I did just do some experiments with grips and trying to make some out of different woods on a friends CNC machine. It was hard work, and while I managed to make some, I think in the long run, I just preferred the Pachmeyers. My second choice was the stock grips. Oh, I shoot a BHP if that's of any concern as to the grips. (And B. Nesbitt, I will return your grips soon, thanks for lending them to me.) Just my .02 JZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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