New Palm Scoring software

[shootingchef]

online registration sound good, probably will work if you have a steady group of return shooters who just indicate they will be attending. OR use the self squading program via USPSA.org

[Fireant]

I had my web guy make a preregistration page that emails to a new email address that I created. I can enter all those names in the match and only worry about the new shooters. Most of the new shooters come with a regular, so many of them will be already entered before match day. I'll see how this works in less than 2 weeks. Here is the link Coastal Area Practical Shooters

[Jim Norman]

The form is part one of what I am hoping for. After that I'd like to get it so that all I have to do is upload the file thathte form creates into Ez, and then send that out to the Palms.

Your form seems to have all the required info. I suppose you can or do create a list that allows your shooters to sign in and you can check them off as to paid?

Jim

[Fireant]

The form is part one of what I am hoping for. After that I'd like to get it so that all I have to do is upload the file thathte form creates into Ez, and then send that out to the Palms.

Your form seems to have all the required info. I suppose you can or do create a list that allows your shooters to sign in and you can check them off as to paid?

Jim

Yes, I have a form that all the info from the emails go into and I print of that page and take to the match to check them off as they pay.

[Jim Norman]

Just a heads up, the program has been updated. Now has N/S listed by each target so that you don't have to remember later, also has a few enhancements to speed it up a bit. Liking htis more every day.

Jim

[Fireant]

Oh yeah, one more week until I roll it out at my club. No more paper to worry about and no more working until midnight on match days to get the scores done. I can have them posted before I get out of the truck for lunch.

[Jim Norman]

OK, Ran SS again last night. we had 30 shooters. biggest problem is/was that the interface dialog box for the hot sync doesn;t come to the top and zI keep forgetting that step. Second is the late arrivals.

Otherwise all went well. We had 4 stages, we shoot 1&2, reset and shoot 3&4. Well, it was getting late so we decided to change 3&4 as to round. Changed in the two palms, reloaded stages to the Laptop and off we went. Scores were done in 5 minutes.

Now, I have to look into one situation that arose. We set up two identical stages in each bay, two El Prez and two others. We haad only loaded one palm per stage, so we had to do a work around since we shot all 4 before scoring, Enter time for Shooter 1, write down time for shooter 2. After range clear, we scored 1, then moved to 2, entered his time and hits, then repeated. I am wondering how the system will handle two palms for the same squad on a single stage. half the squad will be in Palm 1, the other half in Palm 2, when we upload, how is that handled?

I plan on creating a single stage 4 person match using two palms for one stage and checking this. If anyone has looked at this already, let me know.

Jim

[TaterHead]

OK, Ran SS again last night. we had 30 shooters. biggest problem is/was that the interface dialog box for the hot sync doesn;t come to the top and zI keep forgetting that step. Second is the late arrivals.

Otherwise all went well. We had 4 stages, we shoot 1&2, reset and shoot 3&4. Well, it was getting late so we decided to change 3&4 as to round. Changed in the two palms, reloaded stages to the Laptop and off we went. Scores were done in 5 minutes.

Now, I have to look into one situation that arose. We set up two identical stages in each bay, two El Prez and two others. We haad only loaded one palm per stage, so we had to do a work around since we shot all 4 before scoring, Enter time for Shooter 1, write down time for shooter 2. After range clear, we scored 1, then moved to 2, entered his time and hits, then repeated. I am wondering how the system will handle two palms for the same squad on a single stage. half the squad will be in Palm 1, the other half in Palm 2, when we upload, how is that handled?

I plan on creating a single stage 4 person match using two palms for one stage and checking this. If anyone has looked at this already, let me know.

Jim

Jim, I'll see what I can do about making the interface come to top, in spite of what other programs are doing.

Late arrivals are annoying, Palm software or not. You ever notice it is ALWAYS the same late folks?

The software is set for one stage at a time. If you have two stages in one bay, you really have two stages as far as the software is concerned. Scoring is saved "by stage, by shooter". The upload to EzWin is the same. In the scenario you mention, the best result would be 4 palms, one for each stage. As you note there are always work arounds, but the basic is one stage at a time, for one squad at a time. Regardless how it is done, the scoring is by stage, by shooter.

Hope that helps. If not, drop me a line and we can try further.

Thx

Rod

[TaterHead]

We used the software again today for Caja Del Rio. RGPSC.com and Caja Del Rio have been using it for about six months now, both in testing and production. The savings in manpower and score sheet printing are enormous. Ran into a new twist today that caused us some delay at the end of the match.

If you have a shooter sign up for the match in one division (like open), and also sign up as a re-entry for the classifier (like Limited), make sure they are scored the match as Open, and the classifier as Limited. If you do it backwards, you leave little for the stats person do to but record scores and move them around. Doable, but time consuming!

The real thing is for the shooter to make sure they are being scored in the correct division if they are shooting in multiple divisions. StageScore records the division and displays it. The shooter needs to make sure they are being scored in the correct division, and/or the RO needs to make sure. On the RO's defense, how are they to know that someone signed up for multiple divisions? Recheck everyone? Likely not.

Shooter, help out here.

cya

Rod

Edited January 18, 2009 by TaterHead

[Nik Habicht]

Rod,

one of the things you missed was that Jim was running two identical set-ups of each of two stages --- side by side on a common firing line. He was trying to figure to figure out if he could score each stage using two palms simultaneously --- and upload the results correctly....

So the question is: Can you score a stage on two palms and have either program combine the results?

[TaterHead]

Rod,

one of the things you missed was that Jim was running two identical set-ups of each of two stages --- side by side on a common firing line. He was trying to figure to figure out if he could score each stage using two palms simultaneously --- and upload the results correctly....

So the question is: Can you score a stage on two palms and have either program combine the results?

As long as the usage is by shooter, by stage, yes this will work. I don't have a real clear picture of what is being attmpted, but that doesn't matter. One stage, one shooter. If you flip from one stage to another, that will work. If you are running 4 stages within one bay, at the same time, you can likly make it all work, but again, the software records scores by stage, by shooter.

gawd, I'm confused. long day

[Jim Norman]

Ok, the question I asked was this: Can you use multiple Palms to score shooters on the same Stage?

Why? Two reasons, One, and this should have given me my answer, is that a Palm COULD fail leaving us to have no choice but to use a second Palm, Data in Palm 1 shouldn’t be lost (assuming a dead battery, not a Palm being stepped on)

Reason two is where we have several identical courses set up in the same pit, maybe a classifier or a Standards.

Well, I am happy to report that it works. Duh. Should have known it would have to.

Thanks for a great program, also a side note, the update makes this about 100% better, the tap to enter on targets is much faster now and having the NS hits on the target page is a BIG improvement.

Jim

One question, is it possible to add a feature to write the results to a chip? the Palms have a slot and chips are cheap. THis would allow a simple secure back-up.

Jim

Edited January 18, 2009 by Jim Norman

[Flexmoney]

Late arrivals are annoying, Palm software or not. You ever notice it is ALWAYS the same late folks?

I think I'd print out a handful of paper score sheets and give those to the late arrivals.

If the same people always showed up on the stages with a paper score sheet when everybody else is in the Palm...that might help shame remind them...

[Flexmoney]

We have run 4 matches so far. first was with the trial version, bought it the next day, second had some issues, third and 4th were 100% Successful.

What is missing is an easy way to populate the match. EzWinScore really falls short in this area. Having continuously go out to the list and scroll through it is just not user friendly. What is needed is a direct entry into Ez, start typing the shooters name, first or last, or his shooter number and the info should appear.

I just don't get that. If you're in competitor registration, click on the select from master tab, click on the letter of the guy's last name, then scroll down and find the guy you want, click on him, click on his division, click the register cmdbutton, and then click the save cmdbutton. 6 mouse clicks. You're done.

I know you want to just start typing a last name and have everything fill in magically, but what about when you register so-and-so "Smith" or some other common name. Now what? I can envision a drop-down menu appearing that you have to scroll through and pick the guy you want, but.... that's what you have to do now. I don't have anything against your idea; I just don't see it as any more user friendly than what we already have.

But as I've told other folks before, I don't determine what goes into the system; I just guide them along like all the rest of us. You really want that feature, contact roger@uspsa.org (Roger Maier) or area7@uspsa.org (Rob Boudrie) and see what they think.

Can't argue with what you say Bill.

What I am really after is a way to automatically load from a webbased form that gagthers the info so all I have on match day is the walk-ons. I am looking to pre-squad the match. We generally run around 50-60 shooters, sometimes more, sometimes less. Our match has to buld on Sunday morning and be torn down that same night.

Anything I can do to reduce the match day work load is good.

Jim

Bill,

What if the USPSA number field was the one that pulled the shooter from the data base? Then, no need to dig through all the Smiths?

or

EZ's functionality with bar codes...could that be adapted for the task of entering shooters? I could print out bar code labels with the shooters data. The shooters could stick the bar codes on the back of their member cards. Or, I could have a sheet or three that had bar code labels for all on my clubs regular shooters.

?

[Nik Habicht]

What if the USPSA number field was the one that pulled the shooter from the data base? Then, no need to dig through all the Smiths?

If that were to happen, it should ideally ignore the prefix for all categories other than Life and Benefactor --- where there might be a member number duplication.....

That way you could just run most entries off the number pad....

[Jim Norman]

I like the number pad entry idea, no extra hardware and no special printing. Shooters that are in the system, but are not USPSA members and of course anyone that is not in system will still require a manual look-up or entry, but they are a very minor part of sign-in, if all the rest were 5 digits and in wow, what an improvement!

Bill????

Rob????

Roger???

[Fireant]

I like that idea, but for my club 50% of the shooters are not members and all the arm twisting I can do won't make them join. Do remember that you can add walkins 10 at a time I think it is and then just assign the late comers w-1, w2 etc. as their shooter number in the palm and then change the name back on you computer after the hotsync.

[Flexmoney]

Then again, typing in "Smith" doesn't pull up to many choices if we are just pulling from the local club's database.

Even with the number of members on this forum (for example), the more letters of the name I type in, the more refined the choices get.

[double_pedro]

Ok, the question I asked was this: Can you use multiple Palms to score shooters on the same Stage?

From my experience (one match and a lot of playing around before hand), you could use one palm per shooter per stage if you wanted to. Once the all data is uploaded, blank scores are ignored. However, if by some mistake, a shooter is scored on the same stage in two different palms (e.g. shooter shoots stage 1 on palm 1, a re-shoot is needed and it is scored on palm 2), I'm pretty sure which ever score is uploaded last will be used. I did a test on this and that's what I recall happens. I don't recall any warning being given.

[Jim Norman]

Double Pedro,

hadn't though of that possibility. What I was concerned about and ran a dummy match to confirm is whether I coauld use two plams on one duplicate stage, such as a Standards where we run multiple shooters before going down range to score. That works, just don't make any entry at all for shooters that are to be scored on the other palms and the system takes care of it. If you were to mark a shooter as DNF, i am not sure what would happen.

I am still looking at pre-registration as the major hurdle we have to overcome to make this work well for our monthly match. We don't have dedicated stats at the monthly and signin and loading of 60 plus or minus shooters will take some amount of time as we also have to squad the shooters. Pre-reg will allow the squadding of a majority prior to match day.

No-Shows are not a problem and we can add a few people that show up early enough that registration is still open, but not so late as to have to be Walk-Ons. We fully expect we will always have a couple of them.

What would be real nice is to have a form on our website that gathered the data and a method to import that to EzWin as well as to printout a confirmation and sign in list so we can mark the shooters as paid, get their signature on the waiver and also confirm all their data as to division and PF.

Jim

[wgnoyes]

What would be real nice is to have a form on our website that gathered the data and a method to import that to EzWin as well as to printout a confirmation and sign in list so we can mark the shooters as paid, get their signature on the waiver and also confirm all their data as to division and PF.

That's really 2 different things. Web registration and check-in lists.

For web registration, I can see having such a form that appends entered data onto a mysql table, and then gives the user a confirmation. Then at whatever cutoff you determine, you would run a second process to import that table into your match file that has no one registered in it.

For the check-in list assuming a regular lvl1 monthly pistol match, don't you already have that? Just print out an alphabetical competitor list

[Hoofy]

Our club has changed to StageScore for our matches.

A couple of lessons learned in the process:

Implementing StageScore with another club in the area really helped.

Our sister club, in Pueblo, and ourselves went in together on this commitment.

We got 5 or 6 from each club to give up a Saturday morning to really learn the process.

A mock match after works well.

Pueblo ran the program last week, we ran it this week. We both bought the same hardware hoping for compatibility for future large matches or a quick backup if one craps out.

Initial reaction has been overwhelmingly positive. Scores are posted before people have even stopped bs’ing about their performance.

When putting stages in the palms, always say yes to no shoots. That way if you throw in a no shoot afterwards, you are covered.

We are still trying to figure out the best way to handle reshoots. (1st of all, don’t grant them) Second guns on classifiers have gone on paper so far. Beaming to a mock master palm more often during the match would give me more peace of mind, but is probably wasted energy.

Multiple strings on a COF are no big deal, just need to put those in to increase familiarity. Doing is learning, put the palm in someone’s hands, don’t just let them watch you.

Some people just won’t ever want to score with it, do to vision, fear of technology, etc. No big deal, just hand it off to the next guy instead.

I put together a scoring nightmare of a stage, just as a tutorial on how to use it before the match. Procedurals, missed steel, no shoots, we didn’t even use it as such. We just jumped right in to the match.

10 minutes, match scored.

We will never go back.

[wgnoyes]

When putting stages in the palms, always say yes to no shoots. That way if you throw in a no shoot afterwards, you are covered.

That's even true in a scoresheet match. I always select "yes" on noshoots in ezws. It costs me nothing, the system runs the exact same way, and it only adds a NS box to the scoresheet that never gets filled in so that doesn't matter

[Jim Norman]

What would be real nice is to have a form on our website that gathered the data and a method to import that to EzWin as well as to printout a confirmation and sign in list so we can mark the shooters as paid, get their signature on the waiver and also confirm all their data as to division and PF.

That's really 2 different things. Web registration and check-in lists.

For web registration, I can see having such a form that appends entered data onto a mysql table, and then gives the user a confirmation. Then at whatever cutoff you determine, you would run a second process to import that table into your match file that has no one registered in it.

For the check-in list assuming a regular lvl1 monthly pistol match, don't you already have that? Just print out an alphabetical competitor list

Bill, I am essentially a computer for dummys type so designing a form, exporting it in sql and importing it are things someone else needs to design, I can run it after that.

As for the sign in list, that only occurs after the pre-registration is up and running. now people show up and fillout a scoresheet, part of which has the waiver on it.

Jim

[EZ Bagger]

This thing ROCKS!!!