45 ACP Gauge Problem

[bhglr]

New to reloading... just got started on my 550b. Reloading is as much fun as shooting... well maybe. I am glad I went with the Dillon.

I'm having one problem with some of my 45 ACPs not fitting the Dillon Case Gauge. Not sure where the problem is so I thought I would seek some advice before ordering an EGW U die which I think would 'fix' the problem - if there even is one.

Without further adieu here is my dilemma. 230gr Zero FMJ FYI. All of the brass was factory fired from my M&P 45. These cases were CCI Blazer Brass some headstamped as CCI and some headstamped as Blazer.

On my first few batches I noticed probably 25% of my cases would not fit in the case gauge... a little of the base hanging out. No extractor marks... I inserted the case upside down and the rim fits so I deduced it must be in the case itself.

Being very cautious, on the next batch I de-primed each case with the 550, removed it and put it in the case gauge before proceeding. I was thinking I can't go wrong now... if they fit the case gauge before priming/seating/crimping I should be good. Well, for the most part the rounds turned out well but I still had a few that wouldn't quite fit in the case gauge that originally fit before reloading. How could this be?

My rounds measure approx 1.270-1.273" OAL. I made sure to crimp just enough to remove the bell. Neck/crimp measures approx. .470". Before loading the second batch I reinserted my resizing die turning it to where it just touches the shell plate as per the video manual (just to make sure this wasn't the problem).

I then removed the barrel from my 45 and, for the most part, my rounds that didn't quite fit into the Dillon Gauge chambered fine...

Do you think this is a gauge problem? The reason I ask is that I want the reassurance that my rounds are OK so I can progressively reload and not have to spend so much time chambering them in my barrel etc. Also for safety purposes, I would like to know they are OK... It feels good when the rounds just slip into the gauge easily - it gives me a piece of mind.

I am thinking about ordering an EGW U die to try out. Thoughts? I know that the rounds that chamber in my barrel are OK... I just would like a solution where I can be relatively sure that the rounds will fit - from reading about the EGW U die, I feel this may help (?).

I'm at a loss as to why some of the cases fit after resizing and don't fit after loading.

Thanks.

[Stuck in C]

Check your crimp. You don't want to crimp too much, it will mess up your accuracy, but not enough will prevent chambering (or gauging). Screw in your crimp die a turn or so and try again. It's possible to measure crimp with your caliper just below the case mouth, but I'm not sure what it should be for .45 ACP. Also check that you are not belling the case too much with the powder die.

[bhglr]

Check your crimp. You don't want to crimp too much, it will mess up your accuracy, but not enough will prevent chambering (or gauging). Screw in your crimp die a turn or so and try again. It's possible to measure crimp with your caliper just below the case mouth, but I'm not sure what it should be for .45 ACP. Also check that you are not belling the case too much with the powder die.

Crimp measures around .470" (max is .473" for .45 ACP). I could give it one more turn and see how that does.

I measured my bell between ten and twenty one-thousandths (maybe .483/.484" or so? - at work now), which according to the manual should be OK though the bell does look significant to the naked eye. Also the powder funnel sticks significantly on the upstroke... I need to try a little more One Shot I guess. I don't think the sticking would affect the gauging though (?).

Additionally, I may try to load with a shorter OAL. The factory Winchester measures around 1.260 and smaller crimp diameter. The Speer manual has load data for 1.260" OAL. I was using Lyman which lists OAL at 1.275". I wonder if this will make a difference...

[D.Hayden]

Maybe too much bell?

It just needs to be enough for the bullet to sit on.

Also.. you might look at how the bullet is seated. I've seen bullets seated off center that can cause this.

[JON]

I have loaded zero bullets as well and had the same problem only it was 185 grain JHP. Did not change anything on my 650 from one order to another. The bullet was completely different and would not case gauge but was fine in the barrel. I found the ogive (sp) was different form one case of bullets to another and had to seat the bullet deeper into the case and everything turned out fine. Still have the bullets sitting in front of me and I can see the difference very easily.

I would just try seating the bullet a little deeper and see if your problems disappear.

Jon

[bhglr]

I have loaded zero bullets as well and had the same problem only it was 185 grain JHP. Did not change anything on my 650 from one order to another. The bullet was completely different and would not case gauge but was fine in the barrel. I found the ogive (sp) was different form one case of bullets to another and had to seat the bullet deeper into the case and everything turned out fine. Still have the bullets sitting in front of me and I can see the difference very easily.

I would just try seating the bullet a little deeper and see if your problems disappear.

Jon

Interesting... yes I may try the loads at an OAL of 1.260 as I mentioned above since the Speer manual has the data. Not wanting to be too aggressive on my first reloads I went with the longer OAL data.

Any thoughts on trying an EGW U die as some of my brass doesn't fit the gauge even after resizing with Dillon's die. I've read some posts on people's dislike of Dillon's gauges. Maybe the EGW gauge???

[JON]

Mark your brass and bullet with a sharpie pen and insert into the die to see where the cartridge contacts the case gauge. I would guess that it is not the brass.

Try full sizing a piece of brass and insert it into the case gauge backwards. You will be able to see if it is hanging up on the web. I am still thinking the OAL is the problem.

Just my .02

Jon

[dillon]

A sized, empty case should enter flush into the case gage. To quickly test the gage, drop in a factory cartridge and see

if it completely enters the gage or not. your crimp of .470" is fine, as is your 1.260" OAL.

[bhglr]

To quickly test the gage, drop in a factory cartridge and see

if it completely enters the gage or not. your crimp of .470" is fine, as is your 1.260" OAL.

Yes, I think the gauge is fine to be honest... the factory Winchester (at an OAL of 1.260ish I think) clears the gauge and sits flush without any resistance. My OAL now is around 1.272" so I'm going to shorten that first down to 1.260". I hope that's the answer.

A sized, empty case should enter flush into the case gage.

I proposed the question about the EGW U die simply because some of my empty sized brass (resized by the Dillon die) does not fit the case gauge well whereas some slips in and out perfectly - tested prior to priming/seating/crimping. I wasn't sure if the U die would introduce other problems though... ?

It has to be something simple that I'm doing, or not doing...

[D. Manley]

I proposed the question about the EGW U die simply because some of my empty sized brass (resized by the Dillon die) does not fit the case gauge well whereas some slips in and out perfectly - tested prior to priming/seating/crimping. I wasn't sure if the U die would introduce other problems though... ?

It has to be something simple that I'm doing, or not doing...

I'd bet a Big Mac, with or without cheese, that the problem isn't sizing at all but small extractor burrs on the case rim causing the problem. I just finished processing every single piece of brass on hand and this was the problem on every one that didn't gauge after sizing. Oddly, I found it much more prevalent in .45 than 9MM or .40 caliber. A lighted magnifier is a big help spotting them and a few licks with a small hobby file will tell you if burrs are the problem.

[LPatterson]

Unless your extractor nicks are excessive you can iron them out by inserting the case backwards and wiggling them around. I eliminated most of my problems with a Lee U die and FCD. Checking found 2 split cases and a half dozen extractor nicks in the last 1000 I checked. But I only case guage match ammo.

I use 1.250 as an OAL because I have a Springfield and a Para with very short leads, Precision Moly has to be 1.200. One of the 3 XD45's still shows scratches at that length.

[kevin c]

Jon might be onto something here.

Could you clarify how far you put the loaded round into the gauge case first? It sounds like it fit all the way. If all your nongauging rounds do the same, then it's not the rim, the case (straightwalled, IIRC), or the gauge (which, Dillon will tell you, is actually more generous than many because it is to minimum spec on the .40 chamber, not maximun spec on the cartridge itself).

If the round is longer than SAAMI spec, many gauges will bind on the bullet itself, while the round will still chamber in the barrel because of the leade (best tested by dropping those fat rounds into the stripped barrel of the gun you're loading for).

Burrs on the rim will bind going in either way, but rim in first, may bind before most of the round goes in. Little burrs can be reduced the way D Manley and L Patterson describe, if thats the culprit.

Edited October 15, 2008 by kevin c

[bhglr]

Muchas gracias! Shortening the OAL made a huge difference.

[mpeltier]

A combination of the things mentioned (and not) is probably occuring. I have had similar problems in the past and have been able to cure about 75% of the rounds that don't fully case guage. I have been reloading for a few years and always felt that the sizing operation should take place again somehow after everything else is done. Just for kicks I have case guaged fired brass without any resizing and it case guaged just fine. Forces occuring during the reloading cycle have more of an impact on deforming brass than shooting. There simply is not enough case support when seating a bullet if every variable is not just right. Bullets dont seat perfectly straight, the case mouth is rough and causes resistance, the brass is slightly thickr/thinner, the hardness is not the same from brass lot to lot (or piece to piece), Too much case flare, too little case flare, bullet size/shape, etc. all can have an affect on the shape of the finished cartridge. Sometimes we produce a square peg to insert into a round hole.