ormondopen Posted August 8, 2008 Share Posted August 8, 2008 here is my issue, I am getting a stove pipe on the last round fired 95% of the time. thought is was a short stroking issue but I think I have ruled that out. the brass has 2 bends on each side of the case mouth. magazine setup-SVI tubes, grams springs, bolen followers, dawson base pads could it be a follower issue, any advice would be helpful. one thing I did notice is the follower are resting about 1/4"-3/8" from the top of the tube of an unloaded magazine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GentlemanJim Posted August 8, 2008 Share Posted August 8, 2008 It could be extractor related as well I have seen this when the extractor was loose ...only on last round...when a round still remained in the mag , it prevented the fired case from droping off the extractor....when it was empty ..it fell down and stovepiped Otherwise it ran ok. Just one more thing to check Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-ManBart Posted August 9, 2008 Share Posted August 9, 2008 What caliber....9mm or 38S/SC? Do you have a standard extractor or an AFTEC? Have you bent the top of the Grams spring so that the Bolen follower is at an angle in the tube? The left side should be lower than the right. If it's square to the tube it might not get as high up. Also, you can trim a little from the follower so that it goes all the way to the top and doesn't drag. Still, as Jim said, it sounds like it well could be an extractor issue. R, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ormondopen Posted August 9, 2008 Author Share Posted August 9, 2008 (edited) 9mm, standard extractor. I trimmed the followers so they now go all the way up and applied some more tension to the extractor. we will see tomorrow at our local match. Edited August 9, 2008 by ormondopen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wide45 Posted August 9, 2008 Share Posted August 9, 2008 What does it do when you shoot it without a mag in the gun? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JThompson Posted August 9, 2008 Share Posted August 9, 2008 (edited) Look to the mag, springs, follower... also dirty mag and or gun. I'd bet on the angle of the follower. Edited August 9, 2008 by JThompson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wide45 Posted August 9, 2008 Share Posted August 9, 2008 I'm betting extractor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSMITH Posted August 9, 2008 Share Posted August 9, 2008 Combination of mags not tuned for the Bolen follower and too little extractor tension or an extractor with the strike point set too high. Strike point on the extractor is the key to making a 9mm run. Bolen springs will help too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wide45 Posted August 9, 2008 Share Posted August 9, 2008 Strike point on the extractor is the key to making a 9mm run. Lowering the extractor made all the difference for mine. Fixing mag problems might allow the gun to work, but it's just masking the real problem. The gun should extract, and eject properly without support from the next round, or follower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ormondopen Posted August 9, 2008 Author Share Posted August 9, 2008 (edited) Combination of mags not tuned for the Bolen follower and too little extractor tension or an extractor with the strike point set too high. Strike point on the extractor is the key to making a 9mm run. Bolen springs will help too. do you mean strike point on the ejector? I am using a barry mount so I wouldn't think the height of the ejection would come into play. if I put an empty piece of brass in the chamber and rack the slide it just dribbles out . if I remove the mag. it falls down the mag tunnel. Edited August 9, 2008 by ormondopen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JThompson Posted August 9, 2008 Share Posted August 9, 2008 (edited) Combination of mags not tuned for the Bolen follower and too little extractor tension or an extractor with the strike point set too high. Strike point on the extractor is the key to making a 9mm run. Bolen springs will help too. do you mean strike point on the ejector? I am using a barry mount so I wouldn't think the height of the ejection would come into play. if I put an empty piece of brass in the chamber and rack the slide it just dribbles out . if I remove the mag. it falls down the mag tunnel. Yes, he means ejector... It still matters at what point the round strikes the ejector even with a "Barry" mount. You may also need a long ejector if you don't have one in the gun. Disclaimer: I'm not a smith and don't claim to know anything other than what I've found working on my own gun. EDIT: I missed the fact about the double dent in the case mouth. That is caused when the round doesn't get kicked out (ejector) and the slide comes forward, or the extractor is not holding the round properly. The case smacks into the feed ramp/barrel and causes those dents. For me, tuning is about limiting factors... does the gun eject with the mags removed? Read the link below for some help on ejection. This reading Bob's article. I used it to tune mine and it runs like a champ. http://www.brazoscustom.com/magart/ejection%20perfection.htm Edited August 9, 2008 by JThompson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLM Posted August 9, 2008 Share Posted August 9, 2008 After fitting the firing pin stop make sure there is enough distance between the breechface and the hook on the extractor to let a round cam up under the hook. I check this with a 1/16-inch drill bit. You should be able to slide the round part of the drill bit under the hook. This means you have at least 0.0625-inch clearance. This dimensional clearance will work on most guns. If this dimension is too small, you can file the aft portion of the slot in the extractor to let the hook float farther forward. Can this distance be too big? My spare gun has some ejection issues where it seems the brass is sliding up and missing the ejector. Not stovepipes but the casing is in the same orientation as a round in the camber but above it. Does anybody have a picture of the OTHER side of the ejector in Brazos article? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSMITH Posted August 9, 2008 Share Posted August 9, 2008 No, I do NOT mean strike point on the ejector, I mean EXTRACTOR. If you don't understand what that means I suggest you get some professional help with your gun, someone that understands what it takes to make a 9mm run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wide45 Posted August 9, 2008 Share Posted August 9, 2008 (edited) if I put an empty piece of brass in the chamber and rack the slide it just dribbles out . if I remove the mag. it falls down the mag tunnel. This should be screaming "extractor!" Strike point on the extractor is the key to making a 9mm run. I've never seen anyone talk about "strike point" regarding the extractor. Remembering what I had to do to mine, I could figure what you meant. Edited August 9, 2008 by wide45 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JThompson Posted August 9, 2008 Share Posted August 9, 2008 (edited) No, I do NOT mean strike point on the ejector, I mean EXTRACTOR. If you don't understand what that means I suggest you get some professional help with your gun, someone that understands what it takes to make a 9mm run. R Sorry Howard I thought you meant the angle and strike point of the ejector. I have never heard the term "STRIKE POINT" when referring to an extractor. Could you explain what a Strike point on a extractor is? I can find mo reference to it anywhere. Edited August 9, 2008 by JThompson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gotm4 Posted August 9, 2008 Share Posted August 9, 2008 here is my issue, I am getting a stove pipe on the last round fired 95% of the time. thought is was a short stroking issue but I think I have ruled that out. the brass has 2 bends on each side of the case mouth.magazine setup-SVI tubes, grams springs, bolen followers, dawson base pads could it be a follower issue, any advice would be helpful. one thing I did notice is the follower are resting about 1/4"-3/8" from the top of the tube of an unloaded magazine. I used to get that type of jam on the last round of each mag fired. I have 5 STI mags with Grams springs, followers and bases and it did it on all of them. So then experimenting I ground off the slide stop tab of the follower with a Dremel and it cured it. So then I did the other four followers and it took care of it. It won't lock open when empty but I don't really want it to anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSMITH Posted August 9, 2008 Share Posted August 9, 2008 There are a few things that separate 1911 assemblers from 1911 smiths, strike point of the extractor is one of them. I keep a very few select things back, and this is one of those things. I generally spill my guts and share the things I know or think I know, and don't ask for a pass often..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLM Posted August 10, 2008 Share Posted August 10, 2008 There are a few things that separate 1911 assemblers from 1911 smiths, strike point of the extractor is one of them. I keep a very few select things back, and this is one of those things. I generally spill my guts and share the things I know or think I know, and don't ask for a pass often..... Pass granted... Proceed. How about this... Any chance you point a person in the right direction to dig this up? A bunch of "Google" time came up empty. If I lived close to you you'd have to beat me out of your basement/shop/house/whatever! I'd love to learn how these things work from someone who knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSMITH Posted August 10, 2008 Share Posted August 10, 2008 (edited) Thank you all. Edited August 10, 2008 by HSMITH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ormondopen Posted August 10, 2008 Author Share Posted August 10, 2008 well after the match yesterday she ran 100%, more then I can say for myself. I applied more tension to the extractor and tuned the followers a bit. In hindsight I should have done them individually to nail down the issue but I did not have the time to test before the match. thanks to everyone for your advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GentlemanJim Posted August 10, 2008 Share Posted August 10, 2008 It was pretty clear from the original post that it was an extraction issue. In the configuration you have extraction angle is not the problem it is with a conventional scope mount. So the extractor strike point is not near as critical as it is with most 9 major guns...But still important A quick test is to remove the slide, hang a loaded case under the extractor and shake the slide The extractor should hold the case in place so it will not fall out you can measure the tension with a WEIGAND extractor tension gauge and a trigger pull scale. Thats the only way to have a very close idea of what you have. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wide45 Posted August 10, 2008 Share Posted August 10, 2008 You have to see where the case is on the extractor, when it comes out of the chamber. That is the condition you must replicate when you check it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jm9x23 Posted August 19, 2008 Share Posted August 19, 2008 There are a few things that separate 1911 assemblers from 1911 smiths, strike point of the extractor is one of them. I keep a very few select things back, and this is one of those things. I generally spill my guts and share the things I know or think I know, and don't ask for a pass often..... Pass granted... Proceed. How about this... Any chance you point a person in the right direction to dig this up? A bunch of "Google" time came up empty. If I lived close to you you'd have to beat me out of your basement/shop/house/whatever! I'd love to learn how these things work from someone who knows. In the directions that comes with the AFTEC/MCGuns extractor it refers to the "STRIKE POINT". Maybe this will help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjanglin Posted August 19, 2008 Share Posted August 19, 2008 Take a magic marker and blacken the right curve of you mag in front of the LIPS and shoot the gun see if the brass is takeing the black off if so take the right side top in front of the lips down a little bit at a time. Sometimes the brass hits the mags and or the ejectionport, if ya have the contact point on the extractor not so-so or dont understand this sometimes doing the mag will get ya going. Jim/PA Sailors Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larry cazes Posted August 19, 2008 Share Posted August 19, 2008 In the directions that comes with the AFTEC/MCGuns extractor it refers to the "STRIKE POINT". Maybe this will help. I believe that this concept is covered in one of the past issues of front site. Bob Londrigan wrote it I think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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