OttoBon100 Posted July 7, 2003 Share Posted July 7, 2003 I have a custom Para 16.40 coming from Dawson and would just like to get it right regarding mags. It comes with a coupon for two free ones but I don't have the gun or the mags yet - maybe two more weeks and I want to be ready to go. Any and all help appreciated. I ordered it with the "Ice" magwell. I'm shooting solely IPSC with it so I plan on using 140mm tubes to get in the most rounds. Rarely would I use the 170mm. Based on what I have seen on a few of the posts on this subject: Best setup is Para tubes and Dawson metal basepads. How about followers? Also, would the Wolff +10% springs work best? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Heiter Posted July 7, 2003 Share Posted July 7, 2003 Para stock springs uncut, para stock followers (edges smoothed w/ 600 grit sand paper), 140 Para tubes, and Dawson basepads will get you a reliable 20 and a somewhat tight 21 rounds of .40 If you're planning to shoot USPSA Limited division then on those rare instances when you use 170mm tubes you would only be 30mm over the legal length. Stick w/ the 140's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detlef Posted July 7, 2003 Share Posted July 7, 2003 already confused... *if* you plan on using it in Limited/Standard Div, you will not be pemitted to use 17cm tubes at all. are you saying you want to use original Para and not STI for Para tubes? Then you can choose Grams or Dawson base pads, max capacity is 21 rds in the mags. Wolff+10 will work, cut them to 11 1/2 coils. Best springs (IMHO) are Grams for para, they come all ready to go. Followers that will work are Grams or Arredondo's. Overall, I'd rate the Grams package (follower+spring+base pad) the way to go if you do not want to waste much time and/or effort. He will make it work for you, too, if there's trouble. Only down side is the base pad material is polycarbonate, so if you shoot indoors a lot (concrete floor) or are in the habit of using all sorts of chemicals on your mags, they will break... Dawson's are Aluminum and more durable. Either way, chances are your tubes will need to be tuned for maximum capacity and flawless reliability. Forget about "ready to go" right now, it requires tweaking and experimenting... --Detlef Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokarev Posted July 7, 2003 Share Posted July 7, 2003 CDNN Investments had some decent prices on factory Para mags. I haven't gotten a catalog but I think they have a website. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhino Posted July 8, 2003 Share Posted July 8, 2003 http://www.cdnninvestments.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OttoBon100 Posted July 8, 2003 Author Share Posted July 8, 2003 Thanks all!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3quartertime Posted July 8, 2003 Share Posted July 8, 2003 The only problem mags I have are my Para high caps. It seems like I get them running good and start using them and then they fail. Costing me a stage. STI for Para mags don't hold as many but they never fail. (knock on wood!!!) While your researching mags I would consider STI for Para. I really like the Dawson base pads too. They take a real beating and keep working great. My .02 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazyaboutguns Posted July 8, 2003 Share Posted July 8, 2003 The magazine configuration below works without problems. 1) Mag Body: Factory Para, Feed Lips Inside Width At Release Point, .370"-.380". 2) Spring & Follower: Grams Engineering 3) Base Pad: Dawson This configuration holds 20 rounds. Suggested overall length fpr cartridge is 1.155"-1.190". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDH Posted July 8, 2003 Share Posted July 8, 2003 FYI, a friend of mine bought a 40 cal Para Dawson/Jarrett. He already had the mags from an older gun and they were set up with either stock Para, Arrendondo, or Grams basepads. When the gun came in, he was very disappointed to find out that NONE of them would seat, and the only option he was given was to buy Dawson basepads. Personally, Dawson basepads are the only pads I use, and I am a big fan of them. I just wanted to make you aware that if you are getting this gun with a Dawson magwell, don't even think about going with anything other than Dawson pads..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OttoBon100 Posted July 8, 2003 Author Share Posted July 8, 2003 40 cal Para Dawson/Jarrett: Exact gun I have on order with a DP "Ice" magwell. I inherited (as in free!) two VERY beat up hi-caps for a Para 16.40 from a fellow shooter with trashed plastic basepads and am replacing the base pads with Dawsons per this Forum. Called the Para Pro shop and currently they only have the black stamped metal 140mm tubes in stock which is what I am pretty sure I have now. I don't want those so I'm looking at the stainless STI tubes for the Para. Dawson's catalog (#41, p. 27) says "best springs for the STI mags are STI springs" but I also have three new and unused Para mag springs so I'm hoping these will work out with the STI mag bodies. Anyone have any experience using this combination? The Para followers I have are in pretty good shape - they look like they were just changed out with very little wear - so I'm going to try to use them before I install new ones. Again, thanks all for the help! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Heiter Posted July 8, 2003 Share Posted July 8, 2003 I'm pretty sure that the Para followers and springs are not going to work well in the STI for Para tubes. ...and Detlef is right. You will need to tune whatever combo you go with. As you can tell from the various combo's used by 3quartertime, crazyaboutguns, myself, etc. we all have a combo we've found that works even though none of us use the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriss Grube Posted July 8, 2003 Share Posted July 8, 2003 The STI for Para requires an STI spring and follower. The Para tubes work fine. Use the factory followers, polish the front and back, Wolff extra power springs and dawson basepads. 20 easy and 21 in some. They work fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texasag93 Posted July 15, 2003 Share Posted July 15, 2003 I run Para bodies(blued) with Wolff springs and Arrendondo followers. I have Dawson basepads w/ a Dawson magwell. I have yet to have a problem with mags in my P16. ( KNOCK-KNOCK) Dawson basepads are the only way to go with a Dawson magwell. TXAG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul B Posted July 15, 2003 Share Posted July 15, 2003 I've used just about every combination of follower, spring and base on my para .40 mags. They all work well, but some give some neat extra capacity. The first thing I always do with the newer para mags is polish the inside of the mag using something like scotchbrite or other plastic "steel wool" that is on the market. This seems to make a real difference in reliability. Then I polish the ends and edges of the follower. You don't want to take a lot off here, but the follower has to have just a little play to wiggle around and not get stuck anywhere in the mag tube. I mostly just use stock para springs and they work fine. The best combination I've found is a new Dawson basepad, stock para spring and a grams follower. This actually gives a mag capacity of 22 rounds or 23 with one up the spout. I hate the 24 round stages and love the 22 round stages. By the way there is no need for a spring holder (the little thingys with the fingers) at the bottom of the mag, just put the basepad on over the spring. There may be some tuning of the feed lips necesary, but try the stock setting first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshua Posted July 15, 2003 Share Posted July 15, 2003 I have a very good condition STI 140mm tube for para p16 with the stock STI follower and spring and willing to trade for same condition Para 140mm tube with stock Para follower and spring. The STI tube works great in my Para p16 limited gun, it's just that I have mostly para mags and would like to have them looking they all belong in the same flock. Josh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcoliver Posted July 16, 2003 Share Posted July 16, 2003 I'm a bit confused. When you guys talk about stuffing 20+ in a mag for a para, will the gun+mag combo still fit the IPSC box? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GvU Posted July 16, 2003 Share Posted July 16, 2003 Mcoliver, No they wont fit the box. The maximum I can load is 19 (and make a reload), 20 will be impossibel to get into the mag (not enough space). Thats with a RHT-base (modified!) and hollowed out para-follower, original para tube. I have to be carefull to push the last round in to deep as the round on the follower might get stuck under te pressed cartridge guide (could probably fill that up). Most magazines I use are fitted with SPS-bases ("plastic") and the will hold 18. And yes even the std length magazines need checking for proper functioning. And dont forget to keep checking the followers as the get burred after a good deal of shooting. I still have one magazine that I don't trust and will not use in a match. This one keeps the slide locked back with one round remaining in the mag. Changing to a recoil master did help with reliability (not reducing recoil though). And the virdict is still out on the recoil master (started using that since last May). Then again, at the last worldshoot I bought my ammo and: way to many malfunctions, mainly because of the powder used, after a while the feedramp was like sandpaper. That was a big disappointment after a year of no malfunctions at all. Lesson learned, use only tested combinations. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OttoBon100 Posted July 16, 2003 Author Share Posted July 16, 2003 USPSA Rule Book under Appendix E, US Divisions, Limited Divisions, page 91, states that the mag length restriction is 140mm for what we're talking about here (Para 16.40, double stack). I don't see where it states it must fit in a box. By the way, I get 21 in my stock Para body, spring, follower, and Dawson + basepad without breaking my finger. Maybe we're getting IPSC rules - the "box" - and USPSA rules confused here regarding mags. I don't see a "box" rule for USPSA just 140mm mag length restriction. I'm shooting in the U.S.A. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDH Posted July 17, 2003 Share Posted July 17, 2003 Otto, You are correct... the box rule is generally an IPSC rule. The only Division that worries about a box in the US is Production. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zorba Posted July 17, 2003 Share Posted July 17, 2003 I have said this somewhere before. After spending a fortune on mags followers springs etc,i have found the following to work best in the 16 40. bull m5 mag tubes arrodondo springs arrodondo followers rht +1 mb 19 + 1 and fits into the box. you can also reload to 19 no problem. I have one mag setup like this and 4 with the same components just parra tubes, 18 + 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Bone Posted August 2, 2003 Share Posted August 2, 2003 There seems to be some people here who know what they're talking about with Para mags. I don't - so please enlighten me. A friend brought over a pair of STI/Para mags that don't fit in his P16-40 this morning. "Don't fit", meaning the mag button isn't fully engaging the mag body and you can see the mag catch sticking out approx. .030 beyond the frame vice returning to a flush position once a Para magazine is installed. Obviously in this condition the STI/Para magazines won't stay in the gun past the first or second shot fired. Looking at the magazines it's obvious that the notch cut in the mag body is thinner (in height) than the stock Para magazine by about .030. Are we expected to enlarge it to fit? Is that normal for this part or did he get sold a bad/wrong part? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriss Grube Posted August 2, 2003 Share Posted August 2, 2003 Sounds like he has regular STI mags instead of the STI for Para. IIRC the STI/PARA have 3 holes down the side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Bone Posted August 3, 2003 Share Posted August 3, 2003 I have STI mags. We compared them too. The STI mag catch slot is larger than these are as well. These do have 3 holes down the body of the mag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriss Grube Posted August 3, 2003 Share Posted August 3, 2003 OK dug out my old supply of mags. The STI/Para's haev the 3 holes and the mag release slot is .105 wide. Check the measurements and if they are on then it might be the mag release itself. The mags I measured have worked fine in 3 different Para's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3quartertime Posted August 3, 2003 Share Posted August 3, 2003 6 sti/para tubes. All slots are .106. All work flawlessly in two p16's. The problems I have had and seen came from either a bad mag release. STI releases work great. I have an off brand drilled release that is picky about mags. ( Never go to a match with a plastic mag release!!! errrrrr!!!) Or loading the tube too full. In my experience high capacity doesn't always equal maximum capacity. Just thought of something to add... You didn't mention what kind of base pad or magwell your friend has. Some base pads and magwells won't work together without modification. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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