DQ at the range

[conrad]

I had a close one at the range the other day. I was ROing a shooter and after the start buzzer he was drawing his gun and Barny Fifed a round into the ground inbetween his foot and mine. Less than 12 inches I would guess. Needless to say he got DQ'd. So this is just a reminder to not let your guard down. I know that as a shooting sport we are very safe so lets keep it that way.

Anybody have some stories they would like to tell? Close call or not. Interesing DQ or anything?

[nwb01]

I had a close call earlier this year at an IDPA match. The stage was part of the postal match, stage 4 I believe. You had to shoot two static targets, advance to another position shoot two static targets, retreat to a stack of barrels while shooting targets. Then from around the barrels shoot a couple of static targets.

I decided to pull the pin on this one and see what I could do. Buzzer goes off and I execute my plan. I finish retreating and engaging targets, by now I am at the stack of barrels. I get around the barrels index on the next target and OMG the RO is standing infront of me !!!!! I stop, lower the gun and give him a WTF look !! He tells me to keep shooting ( after he gets out of the way). I finish shooting and unload/show clear. He tells me that he is sorry and is clearly shaken,I walk away clearly shaken by the chain of events.

My shooting buddy has a chat with the the RO and then comes over to me to inform me that they are gonna give me a reshoot. I shoot the stage again, afterwards the RO and I had a discussion and tried to figure out what happend. Basically, I moved alot faster than he anticipated and the RO didn't stay behind the shoot, he went to the side, the direction I was going. Huge mistake on the RO's part.

[JThompson]

I had a close call earlier this year at an IDPA match. The stage was part of the postal match, stage 4 I believe. You had to shoot two static targets, advance to another position shoot two static targets, retreat to a stack of barrels while shooting targets. Then from around the barrels shoot a couple of static targets.

I decided to pull the pin on this one and see what I could do. Buzzer goes off and I execute my plan. I finish retreating and engaging targets, by now I am at the stack of barrels. I get around the barrels index on the next target and OMG the RO is standing infront of me !!!!! I stop, lower the gun and give him a WTF look !! He tells me to keep shooting ( after he gets out of the way). I finish shooting and unload/show clear. He tells me that he is sorry and is clearly shaken,I walk away clearly shaken by the chain of events.

My shooting buddy has a chat with the the RO and then comes over to me to inform me that they are gonna give me a reshoot. I shoot the stage again, afterwards the RO and I had a discussion and tried to figure out what happend. Basically, I moved alot faster than he anticipated and the RO didn't stay behind the shoot, he went to the side, the direction I was going. Huge mistake on the RO's part.

Nasty... I don't think I could have kept shooting after that one.

Truly the mother of all screw ups for an RO

[BSeevers]

I was shooting a club match running forward, then saw a missed target, reversed progress backed up quickly to re engage it. RO was about 3 foot in front of me, beside the target, my muzzle never covered or was even pointed to his side of range, I saw him and kept safe. He argued that these was a No Reshoot. I got my reshoot eventually.

Guess I should have shot him?

Twice at at the same Nationals,the hot one, on different stages we had "Load and make Ready" then a girllish scream downrange.

I have seen quite a few bullets in the ground and over the berm. Novice to Master.

One of the worse I know of is a fool who was mad at his performance and threw the gun downrange. He isn't round no more.

[bruce282]

Take it you didn't make Summer Blast this year.

Bruce

[JThompson]

I was shooting a club match running forward, then saw a missed target, reversed progress backed up quickly to re engage it. RO was about 3 foot in front of me, beside the target, my muzzle never covered or was even pointed to his side of range, I saw him and kept safe. He argued that these was a No Reshoot. I got my reshoot eventually.

Guess I should have shot him?

Twice at at the same Nationals,the hot one, on different stages we had "Load and make Ready" then a girllish scream downrange.

I have seen quite a few bullets in the ground and over the berm. Novice to Master.

One of the worse I know of is a fool who was mad at his performance and threw the gun downrange. He isn't round no more.

Nah, don't shoot him just put a couple beside his feet, and yell, "Dance Biatch!"

[Chris Keen]

Summer Blast was a good one. Didnt see it, but heard the story 3 or 4 times.

Guy made a mental mistake on a Virginia Count classifier stage (Can You Count), realized his error of not makin' a mandtory reload, then tossed his LOADED gun up in the air, so it did a complete 360 vertically, caught it by the grip (like he had practiced this manuver at home a couple times) then re-holstered to prepare for the next string, as if nothing was wrong.

Instant & immediate DQ

Edited July 25, 2008 by CHRIS KEEN

[Micah]

Yeah SUmmer Blast was a good one. Didnt see it, but heard the story 3 or 4 times.

Thankfully the vast majority of DQ's are not as dramatic. Excellent shooters can get DQ'd, but a shooter's true colors are exposed in a DQ situation.

[JKSNIPER]

Nah, don't shoot him just put a couple beside his feet, and yell, "Dance Biatch!"

Now THATS comedy!

[Nik Habicht]

Truly the mother of all screw ups for an RO

Nope --- no one got hurt, we all got a chance to learn from it. Could have been much worse, glad that it wasn't....

[JThompson]

Truly the mother of all screw ups for an RO

Nope --- no one got hurt, we all got a chance to learn from it. Could have been much worse, glad that it wasn't....

I'm not sure how an RO could screw up worse than looking down the barrel of a gun from being out of position. The only reason it wasn't fatal is because the shooter was on top of it. I can't think of a bigger mistake,for an RO, than that. Okay, may be starting a shooter with someone downrange... I'm not bashing the guy, just stating a fact.... he screwed up, I bet he doesn't do it again.

Edited July 25, 2008 by JThompson

[conrad]

Take it you didn't make Summer Blast this year.

Bruce

no what happened?

[Micah]

Jason, Chris explained the situation in post #7. Rather disturbing, no?

[JThompson]

Jason, Chris explained the situation in post #7. Rather disturbing, no?

Ya that one was super hairy... I'll leave it there lest it be a rant.

[conrad]

Jason, Chris explained the situation in post #7. Rather disturbing, no?

Guess I should have read all the way down b4 I replied

[Ed Deegan]

Here is my horror story...

At a IDPA match, had a shoot house. The stage was laid out so that you shot room on right 1 target, room on left one target, back to room on right for last target.

Shooter engages first target fine, starts to engage second target in room on right, exposing himself to target on left. When he punches gun out to shoot, I yell cover, he comes back, starts to punch gun out again, again cover call. Now is when it starts to get interesting. Shooter crosses door to engage the same target, and I say to myself... uh oh, some bad juju coming. He shoots target and then remembers room on left, swings and engages target in other room but came back to me and sweeps my head, with booger hook on bang button. Scared the livin dudu outta me. I stop him and the shooter goes... "What did I do, oh shiiiiit".

Thats my submission.

[FranDoc]

Looked down the barrel x2.

#1 - new shooter on 'intro' night. At ULSC she got confused and looked towards me (RO) to ask what to do next. Only problem is that the muzzle of the .45 followed her eyes. Index finger you-know-where. I briefly remembered the admonition never to touch a shooter, but my hand was already on her arm, redirecting the muzzle downrange. We turned that into a surprisingly low-key 'teachable moment'.

#2 - I still blame this on poor stage design: shooter - who I haven't seen before or since this incident - leaned around the side of a 'barricade' (sheet hanging from the wires on an indoor range), tried to engage a target at a hard angle without moving the sheet. He lost his balance and spun 360 -- muzzle pointed somewhere around mid-thigh as he swept past me (RO, again) and the other dozen people standing in the back of the range.

... please tell me that I have appeased karma in this respect for the forseeable future ....

[Chris Keen]

As many RO's know (or will soon learn) new shooters will forever come & go ...... so, no matter how good an RO you become you may end up looking down the barrel of a loaded gun again some day.

But just as we like to say that as a shooter you need to "see" everything .... so it is as an RO. Be ready for anything & everything, when you least expect it.

Edited July 25, 2008 by CHRIS KEEN

[Tin Can]

I was at a GSSF match. The match was held at a city's P.D. range all R.O.'s , M.D.'s etc. were LEO's. Huge bay that held two stages. At the buzzer I started to shoot, front sight comes on a popper dark blue and something moving in my just out side my vision. I stopped and looked TWO LEO's and the shooter from the stage on my right were walking right in front of my targets [ to the side and 5-8 yards down range. NOT ONE PERSON SAID ANYTHING, this includes shooters, spectators, etc I had to tell the the cop that was R.O ing me what was going on.

[CSEMARTIN]

My scary experiences:

1. I saw a gun go bang after a shooter got on the trigger during the draw. The bullet landed betweent he shooters foot and the SO's foot.

2. Swept by a loaded gun recently as the shooter did a full 360 around a barrel.

3. Swept by a loaded gun--twice in the same match at the same stage in the same squad. Caught the first, saw the second one on tape. No one ever noticed the second one. Clearly poor stage design. Happened as the shooter was getting out of a car to engage targets.

4. A shooter shot the barricade on stage 3 of the IDPA classifier. Finger was on the trigger during the retention reload.

5. I was practicing in the dark before S&W a couple of years ago. My weak hand finger touched the trigger as I brought my flashlight up to the gun. Round went down range. I went home.

6. Another competitor was downrange pasting targets as the SO gave the (edited: shooter ready command)--This happened last september. http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?...019&hl=camo

7. I saw a competitor shoot the ceiling at an indoor match.

8. I was shooting a stage, came around a hall and noticed another competitor down range getting something out of his range bag as I was shooting the stage. We had a talk.

9. I saw a guy in the safe area, right after he finished the match, unholster his gun, rack the slide and a round popped out.

10. A competitor on the next bay/stage had a round go off in his hand as he unloaded to show clear. He had his hand over the ejection port.

11. Same range different day, gun went bang in the safe area.

12. We had a 15ish year old kid @ the range last year that we yelled finger at so many times.......

13. I saw a friend shoot the inside of a van during a stage.

14. I've seen two separate competitors get DQ for breaking the 180 during their revolver reloads.

15. I saw a gun go bang after unload and show clear, hammer down---BANG. Round went downrange. When he was unloading, he didn't drop the mag. He just racked the slide and pulled the trigger.

16. I was the SO, the shooter unloaded to show clear, but I could see that the round hadn't come out. I stopped him before anything happened.

17. I was at the range for a local IDPA match. Just before the safety meeting, I looked over at a guy, and for no apparent reason, decided to pull his gun out and look at it--right there amongst the crowd.

18. A new guy showed up one night to do some shooting. He had an interesting looking 1911 so I asked if I could take a look at it. He just pulled it out, and pointed it right at me as he handed it to me. We had a talk.

19. I was swept by a rifle at a public range once. I haven't been to a public range since.

20. I was swept at a local range here by a guy with a .22

21. I heard about a shooter that dropped his gun. One round went uprange. Another went downrange.

I've seen over a dozen AD's. These are the ones I can remember off the top of my head.

I'm kind of a dickhead at the range when I see people doing dangerous stuff. I yell finger, muzzle, etc at competitors while they are shooting when the RO's/SO's aren't paying attention. I got a talking to by one of the CRO's at the SSC one year for doing that. That conversation didn't go well so I won't post the details.

Edited July 26, 2008 by CSEMARTIN

[GlockSpeed31]

My scary experiences:

Remind me NOT to go shooting w/ you! You seem to find all the idiots w/ a gun.

[CSEMARTIN]

My scary experiences:

Remind me NOT to go shooting w/ you! You seem to find all the idiots w/ a gun.

The really enlightening experience was seeing the "sweep" on camera after the match was over. None of the SO's or anyone in the crowd saw it when it happened. Watching that tape taught me that there is a lot more going on at a pistol range than you realize.

I wonder how many people are really paying attention to what is going around them?

Last summer, when I screamed "STOP" and got blank stares from everyone around me as there was a person downrange at the "shooter ready?" command, I realized, people aren't paying attention at all.

I suspect my 20+ bad experiences aren't unusual at all, I was just paying attention when they happened.

GlockSpeed31, the idiots are everywhere. You just have to watch for them.

ETA: How often do you guys verify that the range is clear before you shoot a stage? I try to every time. The only time I don't is when it's a stage that requires the shooter not to see what is downrange such as a blind shoot house, etc. This has always bothered me.

Edited again: How safe do you think flashlight stages are?

Edited July 26, 2008 by CSEMARTIN

[conrad]

thanks for the stories and hopefully I won't have another close one like that. Anyone have more?

Edited July 26, 2008 by conrad

[Flyin40]

I had a close one at the range the other day. I was ROing a shooter and after the start buzzer he was drawing his gun and Barny Fifed a round into the ground inbetween his foot and mine. Less than 12 inches I would guess. Needless to say he got DQ'd. So this is just a reminder to not let your guard down. I know that as a shooting sport we are very safe so lets keep it that way.

Anybody have some stories they would like to tell? Close call or not. Interesing DQ or anything?

Glad your alright and no one was hurt. I had a thought about the steel match and 22's. All guns, including 22's had to have the safety engaged in the holster if drawing from a holster, trigger guard covered etc. Pretty much all the same rules. Also at unload and show clear the hammer must be dropped. Most know its not healthy to keep dropping your hammer on a empty 22. Make sure you have some snap caps so the trigger has to be pull and it won't hurt the gun. Just let everyone know that all 22's will follow all the same commands as all other guns.

Flyin

[kevin c]

My first major as a new shooter, one stage had a doorway and a shooting area leading down to the right once through it. What with angles and activators, I decided to go to the end of the shooting area and turn back to engage. I specifically told the RO that I was going to do that. He very carefully made a point of staying glued to my strong side shoulder, but forgot to tell the ARO. When I turned back the ARO was just strolling through the door (blind spot from both sides), just off my muzzle. The RO didn't stop me, I had to stop myself. If I had kept shooting, and if this ARO had taken just one more step forward, he would have taken it in one ear and out the other. Not a DQ, just poor design (RO trap), poor communication and worse RO awareness.

Another major match. Start position facing up range, holstered and hot. An out of town GM didn't turn and draw, he drew then turned, sweeping the RO, the ARO, the squad and the spectators. At least no finger on trigger, but a lot of shaken nerves. Yes on the DQ.

A new, left handed shooter turns right out a shooting box with a loaded gun, finger on trigger. RO can't block the gun. The muzzle goes up range and the shot breaks. They tell me the shot hit the side berm over the head of the ARO (me), who was standing well back of the 180. Yes, a DQ, and no, I haven't told my wife that one.

There's lots more, they vary, but there are some recurring themes.

New shooters, and even more experienced ones, under the pressure of big matches, can do unsafe things. It seems to help to not get overly amped up. "Going for it" is good, but not at the expense of self control.

RO's need to be aware of this phenomenon, esp with new shooters. RO's need to communicate well with staff on the range. They need to anticipate potential problems and be ready to intervene.

Stage design needs to consider safety for competitor and staff as a high priority. I used to argue with the head of our safety committee when he suggested changes to the stages I made, but now I understand his determination to protect the shooter, the RO, the range and the sport from injury. Stages should not set up shooters to DQ, should not force competitors to deliberately run on the ragged edge. They can be complex, but I think in a way that makes the novice slow, but not confused or unsafe.

Our club has a safety committee that walks each stage before any match, looking for RO and 180 traps, potentially unsafe shot direction, steel issues, and the like.

When we have an uprange start position with a draw, we make a point of asking which way the shooter is going to turn on the draw, to remind him/her of the need to turn 1st, and to clear that side of the range just in case it doesn't happen.

We try and get the RO to be the last person moving uprange, or to have him look (or both) before the next shooter makes ready.

No, it isn't perfect and it doesn't always work (one of our most experienced shooters DQ'd just this last match, breaking the 180 on an awkard port because of some orthopedic issues that weren't anticipated). but we're trying hard.