Pulling the trigger faster

[HighVelocity]

I spent some time at the range with a friend this morning and tried an experiment. Which can I shoot faster, my SA 1911 or my Glock 21? (both 45acp of course).

Using CED7000 shot timer, starting from low ready, finger off the trigger, target at 5 yards. At the buzzer, fire 5 shots as fast as I can.

1911: 0.77 seconds with 0.19 to the first shot. 0 down. Splits ranged between 0.9 and 0.14

G21: 0.89 seconds and .24 to the first shot. 0 down. Splits ranged between 0.10 and 0.12

Interestingly, my splits were more consistent with the G21 but lowest splits were faster with the 1911. Meaningless data I'm sure but it was fun.

How fast can either a 1911 or a Glock physically cycle? Since this was the first time I've tried this, I have nothing to compare the times to. Has anyone else done something similar and written the times down?

I consider myself an intermediate shooter but striving to improve. What kind of times would, say, TGO, get in this experiment?

Gary

[HSMITH]

Your splits are as fast as you can expect to go, .10's are incredibly fast if you can produce them on demand.

Both guns will cycle at or under .06. You are in no danger of outrunning the gun.

[JThompson]

I've have pulled it down to .06 with a 2011 and a 1lb trigger. I can do .09 pretty much at will. I need to go to about .10.12 to make a good call on the shot though.

[HighVelocity]

Both guns will cycle at or under .06. You are in no danger of outrunning the gun.

I am sure you're right about that. It never even crossed my mind that I could outrun the gun. I just didn't know what the gun is capable of doing, in the mechanical sense. If it was a class 3 weapon for example.

I forgot to put it in the original post but my little Kimber Ultra CDP participated in this excercise also. Total time was 1.13 but I don't remember the splits.

[BBoyle]

.10s would be 600 rounds a minute! just a little slower than what a standard m-16 does and slightly faster than an M60!

[Catfish]

What are your fastest splits when you're shooting A's? Or zeros?

Anything faster than that is irrelevant.

[BillGarlandJr]

I know that an STI Edge in .40 is physically capable of firing .05 splits. I wish I could say I know this because I was able to pull the trigger that quickly but I can't. Had my old Edge tear off a five round burst at a match once. Affer I unloaded the pistol and got it safely back into the holster I asked the RO to see the timer...hence how I was able to learn how fast the Edge could fire....

[JThompson]

What are your fastest splits when you're shooting A's? Or zeros?

Anything faster than that is irrelevant.

Same thing I told him in a PM... I said work on transitions and foget about the splits

[HighVelocity]

I do spend a lot of time practicing transitions. But have not recorded times with a semi auto. My transitions with a revolver, which is what I've shot mostly, average .14-.17.

This was just an experiment to see what was possible (for me). Now that I know how fast I can pull the trigger on a semi, I have something to base future practice on. And knowing how fast more experienced shooters can go, I have a goal to work towards.

[Flexmoney]

We might need to figure out what you are calling transitions?

[HighVelocity]

We might need to figure out what you are calling transitions?

Ha! Yeah, I meant splits with the revolver, not transitions.

[Matt Griffin]

I think the fastest split I've ever willfully produced was an .11, and that was breaking early from my getting lucky and resetting the trigger juuuust enough. I can consistently perform and use .16 to .18 splits on <3yd targets, although they are more of an A/C "see where it went, not where it is going" type shot. All of this is with a G35. With a revolver, I can't break .18 yet, but I can get some useful .22 splits. I haven't timed the single stack.

H.

Edited July 14, 2008 by Houngan

[Pin Shooter]

I think the fastest split I've ever willfully produced was an .11, and that was breaking early from my getting lucky and resetting the trigger juuuust enough. I can consistently perform and use .16 to .18 splits on <3yd targets, although they are more of an A/C "see where it went, not where it is going" type shot. All of this is with a G35. With a revolver, I can't break .18 yet, but I can get some useful .22 splits. I have timed the single stack.

H.

I am with Matt,

.22 is a useful revolver split in my opinion. I have tried to dulpicate ( beat ) JM's world record of 8 shots in under a second, and the closest I have been is 1.17.

Like Mr Thompson said, I only do this stuff on targets, because without a scoring reference, speed to me is worthless. I also work on the same time for splits as target to target transition. If I can keep that .22 cadence in a match, splits and transitions with a revolver, ( and I often can) I am happy.

Mark

[Matt Griffin]

I think the fastest split I've ever willfully produced was an .11, and that was breaking early from my getting lucky and resetting the trigger juuuust enough. I can consistently perform and use .16 to .18 splits on <3yd targets, although they are more of an A/C "see where it went, not where it is going" type shot. All of this is with a G35. With a revolver, I can't break .18 yet, but I can get some useful .22 splits. I have timed the single stack.

H.

I am with Matt,

.22 is a useful revolver split in my opinion. I have tried to dulpicate ( beat ) JM's world record of 8 shots in under a second, and the closest I have been is 1.17.

Like Mr Thompson said, I only do this stuff on targets, because without a scoring reference, speed to me is worthless. I also work on the same time for splits as target to target transition. If I can keep that .22 cadence in a match, splits and transitions with a revolver, ( and I often can) I am happy.

Mark

Mark,

Out of curiosity, have you timed his buzzer reaction in the video? I have to think there's a lot of time stored up in that split. What's your best first shot?

H.

[mikey357]

I'm NOT Mark, but UNLESS I'm BADLY MISTAKEN, "Reaction Time" does NOT enter into JM's "World Record Time"...it is timed from the first shot to the last...FWIW, I can't do quite as well as "Pinshooter" when I use a ten-shot 617 in .22 LR for eight shots!!!...pitifully slow, I am....mikey357

[AzShooter]

How Fast Can You Go? TOOOOOOOO FAST.

Follow the sights, relax and let the gunn do what it needs to and watch the sight come back on target. Set the trigger and pull.

Going too fast feels good for a second or two until you see the C, D, Ms that made it down range.

[Pin Shooter]

How Fast Can You Go? TOOOOOOOO FAST.

Follow the sights, relax and let the gunn do what it needs to and watch the sight come back on target. Set the trigger and pull.

Going too fast feels good for a second or two until you see the C, D, Ms that made it down range.

Oooh yeaah.....The dreaded ( 1 x D, 1 x mike call ) takes the edge of fast shooting.

Mikey 357 is correct. The JM record is from 1st shot to last shot, which allows for 7 splits, that works out to a .14 split.

My best ever one off ( in practise only ) split is a .16, so I have a long way to go, to get down to a .14. Sounds strange but it is similar to drag racing. To go from 16's to 11's isn't as hard as going from 11's to 10's.

Remember, raw speed is slower than smooth speed.

Another side not is that a .38 ( for me ) is quicker to cycle than a 617 (.22 ) I think that the moderate recoil assists in the trigger reset, but I couldn't back that up with science.

And before we all start thinking that JM has a tricked up trigger, trust me he doesn't. In fact I have fired a couple of JM's guns, and his triggers, are as heavy as ours, if not heavier than some. He just practises, and practises and practises. Something we all have acces to.

Mark

[ShooterSteve]

In reality you should only go as fast as your front sight tells you. You can rip off shots at a close target all day long, but did you call any of the shots. If the target was smaller or an 8" steel plate, would you still be getting hits? If not it really doesn't matter how fast you cna go. Don't get me wrong, we all love a good hose session to let it rip, but after a few lessons from a GM, I shoot what feels SLOWER, but my times and splits are faster. Go figure...Oh yea, did I mention to watch that fron sight?

[Duane Thomas]

In fact I have fired a couple of JM's guns, and his triggers, are as heavy as ours, if not heavier than some.

Actually, Jerry has commented in the past that many people think he can shoot a revolver as fast as he can "despite" the heavy trigger pulls, but the truth is he couldn't fire the gun nearly as fast with lighter springs in it; the trigger wouldn't reset fast enough.

[Pin Shooter]

Actually, Jerry has commented in the past that many people think he can shoot a revolver as fast as he can "despite" the heavy trigger pulls, but the truth is he couldn't fire the gun nearly as fast with lighter springs in it; the trigger wouldn't reset fast enough.

True.....but that is supposed to be a secret!

[gotm4]

Exactly. Some people think they can pull the trigger faster than the gun can cycle.

Some people can move their trigger finger faster than the reset speed of the trigger.

I had this problem with a M&P until I starting using a Mass. compliant triggerspring. This makes the trigger heavy like a Glock with a 3.5lb connector and a NY1 spring but it makes for a very snappy reset that can keep up with my finger.

[kevin c]

Ha, my fingers will never move so fast.

But, I'd be happy if I could consistently get both my transitions and splits under 0.20.

[Matt Griffin]

Exactly. Some people think they can pull the trigger faster than the gun can cycle.

Some people can move their trigger finger faster than the reset speed of the trigger.

I had this problem with a M&P until I starting using a Mass. compliant triggerspring. This makes the trigger heavy like a Glock with a 3.5lb connector and a NY1 spring but it makes for a very snappy reset that can keep up with my finger.

What if I can move my trigger faster than my brain? That seems to be getting in the way lately . . .

H.

[Madcap Magician]

I shot a local IDPA match back in 2006 that had a stage with 2 retention shots on a target and then retreating to finish the stage. My split was .056 with a Glock 34. I distinctly remember Claude W. from the Rogers School who was running it saying that it was the fastest split he'd ever heard of. One of those little moments you'll never forget.

Beyond that one instance, .11 is about as fast as I can get a close target hosed.

[little_kahuna]

Going fast is awesome....but honestly, how often do you NEED to pull sub-.15 sec splits?

Why not just pull the trigger when you see your sights? Calling a good shot is infinitely more valuable a skill than have a quick split. I have only ever pulled a .12, and in my (limited) shooting experience I have never needed to split that fast.

Having a .07 split is trivial and only impressive in practice. No one (not anyone I shoot with regularly at least) cares whether someone pulls an amazing split during a stage, only whether they shot a smooth stage.

~my $0.02~

-LK