JimInFL Posted July 3, 2008 Share Posted July 3, 2008 My first 'need comments/advice' post. Definitely a beginner with 10 total matches under my belt since starting in Production beginning in Feb., then 3 matches since switching to a 9 Maj Open gun. I try to shoot one match a week, and 1 live practice a week, with dry fire as I can work it in. 2 weeks ago today, I was practicing simple draw-2-2-2 at 7 yards. about the 5th time through the drill, I drew, fired, and something strange happened. The first shot was an A - usually is at that range. On the second shot, before the gun was even done shuddering in my hands, I had a snapshot in my mind of exactly where the hole in the target was. (I was using some hardcover painted down vertically to an A-zone only targets I happened to have in my truck). I should say, I know exactly where the dot was when the sot fired actually. I KNEW the second shot was lower left corner A touching the black. I mean I KNEW it - I'd have bet my paycheck on it. Even though it was an A hit, THE GUN decided to take a follow up shot, and moved itself up and right and fired again. I'm not kidding guys - the GUN did it - not me ! I was just WATCHING the whole thing transpire. I actually stopped shooting, with a big, silly-ass grin on my face. I believe I actually 'called' my shot for the first time. So THAT"S what it feels like. I felt like I'd just crossed a major hurdle in my shooting. All the things I read on here suddenly begin to make sense. Now I'm making progress ! Now the bad news. It's been two matches, and two practices later, and I can't get there again. I got it one time, and one time only. I finally felt what it was like to actually WATCH as the gun shoots and moves itself, and KNOW where a shot actually hit the target. Two weeks later I can still see it. It's really an incredible thing to feel. What do I have to do to get it to come back ???? JimInFL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Powder Finger Posted July 3, 2008 Share Posted July 3, 2008 Cool deal. 1st you may have noticed the timer if you had one and the 3rd split was probably quicker than the bad shot. 2nd The fact that you want it to come back is part of the barrier. If you want to find a five dollar bill go look for it (you won't find one) When you quit lokking for it you will probably find on in your own washing machine. Easy answer just keep watching the stuff happen, then it will come back, before long you can do it all the time you just won't know how you learned it (who cares) as long as you can do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-ManBart Posted July 3, 2008 Share Posted July 3, 2008 Excellent! Now that you've seen it, you'll be able to again. Actively "trying" can/will get in the way, so just shoot, watch what happens and next thing you know, you'll be calling your shots regularly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MemphisMechanic Posted July 6, 2008 Share Posted July 6, 2008 (edited) Go back there with targets that are ALL hardcover, and set them up in the shade. (Make it impossible to see the holes somehow) Don't shoot for groups, just watch the dot lift. Don't shoot for speed, don't shoot for accuracy. Just watch the dot lift on each shot. Edited July 6, 2008 by MemphisMechanic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el pres Posted July 6, 2008 Share Posted July 6, 2008 Even though it was an A hit, THE GUN decided to take a follow up Wow, Where can I get a gun like that !! Great stuff, keep at it and just like was said dont try to see anything. This is a hurdle I have been working on for a long time. I see it all the time and then I try really hard and acually shoot worse !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimInFL Posted July 6, 2008 Author Share Posted July 6, 2008 Thanks for the comments. All good stuff. Just shot a match yesterday, and still didn't see what I was hoping to see. Wish my subconscious mind was a little more aggressive in taking things over But I also understand that as long as I'm thinking about, and looking for it, then I'm not going to be able to let it happen. I WILL get it. I'm completely confident that it is/will be happening, and I'm trying to approach every match and practice, with the assumption that it's already there and a part of my shooting, so it's not on my mind when the buzzer sounds. JimInFL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benos Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 JimInFl, Cool post - I love reading "ah-ha mind opening" posts. What "allowed" you to see and respond in a fresh new way was probably due to a couple factors. a. Because, I was practicing simple draw-2-2-2 at 7 yards. about the 5th time through the drill... b. You probably weren't trying anything at all. I've had some fantastic "first experiences" practicing like that. Just keep a repeating a string of fire, remaining ever watchful for whatever you might see. Like Powder Finger said, wanting the experience to repeat is a barrier. As people, wanting pleasurable experiences to repeat is what we do. But "wanting" is the reason they don't. A cool thing is that you had the initial experience. So now you know a new realm of seeing is possible. That's a huge step just to get to there. In practice, just keep watching. And you'll start seeing more and more. It's harder to "let the seeing happen" in matches, because we're more concerned with results than we are in practice. So then that's when "trusing" comes in: http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?...amp;hl=trusting be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimInFL Posted July 8, 2008 Author Share Posted July 8, 2008 Thanks Brian, and all others ! If there is one thing I do have going now, it's a positive attitude about this. It's amazing how encouraged it makes you feel when you get a taste of what you read about here and in 'The Book'. Waiting on a 6 moa dot right now (mine quit last match). Can't practice very well without that. Boy, you really have NO reference when that dot is gone ! I think I shot half a big stick at 4 poppers about 15 yards out before I gave up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Powder Finger Posted July 9, 2008 Share Posted July 9, 2008 Man, that's a perfect time to figure out how to shoot without the dot! You can do it just try it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benos Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 Man, that's a perfect time to figure out how to shoot without the dot!You can do it just try it out. Good one. Talk about learning to shoot by feel! be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lugnut Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 (edited) I'm very interested in this stuff as well. Like you said it's hard to "make" it happen. One thing benos mentioned somewhere was just shoot into a berm to observe the gun. It's still hard to see everything I want however I tried something else that might help. I was noticing that on occasion I blink (this happens just after a shot is fired as I usually get very good group) so I wanted to try something. I usually see the sights go up and then when they go back into the slot of the rear sight. Sometimes the go right in, sometimes not. But this is what I "observed"- I tried holding a sight picture somewhere on the berm. Holding the gun still I literally moved my eyes/head to the side of the gun so I can "see" the gun from the side. It was interesting. I saw a lot more. Try it. Edited July 10, 2008 by lugnut Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimInFL Posted July 10, 2008 Author Share Posted July 10, 2008 lugnut - that does sound interesting and I'll try that. Like you say, maybe just observe all that is happening at that time. I like that idea. I too, worry about a possible blink. If I suspect it, I'll usually just point to the berm, and shoot 3 shots bang..bang..bang - two with my eyes closed, then then between the second and third I pop my eyes open. Sounds ridiculous, but it seems to work for me. Although I still sometimes feel it (a blink) MIGHT be happening. I don't know. It seems usually like there is just a lot going on at that moment and the dot is moving, well, in chaos (to use a word from the book). I don't think I've ever seen a simple, vertical motion of the dot, that I could track. I guess I'm just not there yet. Even when I had that great feeling I described at the beginning of this thread, I didn't see the sight 'raise' - more like it simply stood frozen long enough for me to etch the picture into what I was actually seeing. In my mind it wasn't 'raising', it was still - like a photograph. Now I'm rambling, does this make any sense ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lugnut Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 Even when I had that great feeling I described at the beginning of this thread, I didn't see the sight 'raise' - more like it simply stood frozen long enough for me to etch the picture into what I was actually seeing. In my mind it wasn't 'raising', it was still - like a photograph. Now I'm rambling, does this make any sense ? I think I heard benos in an interview with Matt Burkett say something like it doesn't matter if you see everything in between just make sure you see the sights when the gun goes bang and then when it comes back. The sight doesn't just go up (and not always straight up and down) but it comes backwards at the same time- REAL FAST... yeah.. it's chaos. Figuring out chaos isn't easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skip62 Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 Great to here you got this far. I haven't competed in over 15 years, but what helped me to get over the hurdle was visualization. The better I got at getting the COF in my head, the more attention I had left to watch the front sight. That and relaxing before the buzzer. Good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimInFL Posted July 11, 2008 Author Share Posted July 11, 2008 skip - thanks. And I just read an article somewhere, or maybe it was an old post here - I can't remember. But it was all about visualization, and the tremendous impact it can have on your shooting. I believe they even took it beyond the match, and off the range, and described visualizing shooting during the day like at work when your taking a break, laying in bed, whenever. I need to go find that again. It even quoted an experiment that was done, where they took some shooters away from shooting for a while, but had them spend a good amount of time visualizing, while another group kept practicing. And the results were pretty amazing. Anyone know where I might have seen that ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benos Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 The sight doesn't just go up (and not always straight up and down) but it comes backwards at the same time- REAL FAST... yeah.. it's chaos. Figuring out chaos isn't easy. When your mind is real quiet and just watching - not struggling, rushing, or trying to do or see anything at all - everything slows down and becomes much easier. be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdstihl Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 Jim, I don't know where that post is, but I can say the info on this board seeps into your subconscious. I post very little, but read a LOT here, and the casual target shooting I do shows the results. I'm shooting faster and more accurately, and the only thing I changed was watching the front sight lift and come back on target. I'm not at the point where I see it through the whole arc yet though. Also, I posted this a while back: my wife and I were both doing a shoot and draw on a swinging plate. Something I don't practise nearly enough. Anyway, there were times that I knew the shot was good while I was squeezing the trigger. It felt like I was pushing the bullet into the target. Pretty cool... of course, it didn't happen very often! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lugnut Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 I have to believe you... but it seems like a magic trick at this point. And I have thrown many rounds into a berm just to observe. It will happen some day. The sight doesn't just go up (and not always straight up and down) but it comes backwards at the same time- REAL FAST... yeah.. it's chaos. Figuring out chaos isn't easy. When your mind is real quiet and just watching - not struggling, rushing, or trying to do or see anything at all - everything slows down and becomes much easier. be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Powder Finger Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 This is the best book I ever saw regarding visualization. It talks about it pertaining to healing, performance & many others. http://www.amazon.com/Seeing-Minds-Eye-Tec...n/dp/0394731131 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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