havotec1 Posted June 29, 2008 Share Posted June 29, 2008 I won a new 16 inch pof upper with the predator rail system, and am thinking about selling it and going with a jp instead, any suggestions. Will the pof shoot as well as a jp. From what I have read they have a great design with their piston system and heat reducing ability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BD Williamson Posted June 29, 2008 Share Posted June 29, 2008 Give it a try before you jump ship. I have been really impressed with mine and it groups as good as my JPs. Chamber stays clean all the time. Really nice rifle. Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastshooter03 Posted June 29, 2008 Share Posted June 29, 2008 I haven't shot my P415 for accuracy yet but after 100 rds it is really, really clean. I think it has a 1x7 twist so you might be best off using heavier bullets. I just got a scope for it so I might be able to post some groups in the next month. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatcat Posted June 30, 2008 Share Posted June 30, 2008 (edited) The POF gas piston system is great since it is designed to reduce the amount of cleaning required to keep an AR functioning. No issues of carbon fouling and/or heat. Great for full auto in harsh environments. But you may not like the recoil impulse. The gas system can't be "turned" down to be used w/ lightened carriers & buffers, but heard that others have tried to either reverse the gas piston to the smaller holes or plugging some of the larger holes w/ stainless wire. You could start hogging material off the carrier but it's nickel plated. The upper overall is pretty heavy vs. a similar JP and I find it not as ergonomic. The Predator rail clamps over the top of the upper making it higher that it should. I'm still going to keep mine, but won't be using it for 3-Gun as it comes from the factory. Edited June 30, 2008 by fatcat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GentlemanJim Posted June 30, 2008 Share Posted June 30, 2008 As stated above Its not the bees knees for 3gun....but its a great system for ugly conditions I think it only shows its true colors under full auto... and I dont think it can be beat for that. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jobob Posted June 30, 2008 Share Posted June 30, 2008 I've been using a POF 18" upper on a DPMS lower for 3 gun for the last year. I love it! Exceptionally reliable and CLEAN! But, what was said about the recoil impulse is true for the most part. I've been on a quest to find the perfect comp for it, but even the best comp I've found doesn't attenuate the recoil too much, though muzzle rise can be controlled. In fact, the TTi comp resulted in muzzle dip. I've reversed the piston, which was mentioned, and that seems to help a little, but the recoil is still noticably more than with my 16" DPMS. That carbine is much lighter, too, and still feels softer. POF says that reversing the piston (small holes forward) is for use with a can, and may result in short stroking without the can, but I've had no problem, even with Wolf. Lately I replaced the carbine buffer tube with a full length and A1 stock. Haven't shot it yet, but I'm hoping that the recoil impulse will be reduced with the longer tube and full stock. The gun is fairly heavy, too, but not to where it will really cost you in a match. The weight actually helps settle the gun down on the longer targets. Accuracy is excellent. 1 MOA at 100 yards w/ 55 gr. Black Hills blue box. Slightly more, maybe 1.25" groups with Federal AE 55s. Twist is 1:8, btw. What I love is the absolute reliability. I've shot it in the last 2 MGM Ironmen. Not one malfunction. Also, no need to clean it the entire match, even with all the blowing dust on the range. Even then, the bolt and carrier are essentially clean after about 500 rounds fired in the match. Grease is still where I put it (POF says no lube necessary, but I can't help myself). Which reminds me, I hate cleaning guns! Even with near 1,000 rounds between cleanings, I can have it clean in about 10 minutes, and most of that is the bore. It may not be THE perfect 3gun rifle, but it's not bad. I'm sure not selling mine! I'd recommend that you keep yours, too! Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havotec1 Posted June 30, 2008 Author Share Posted June 30, 2008 Hey guys thanks a bunch for the info, I carry a HK 4-16 at work and think it is a great duty weapon, the downfalls I see are it is extremely heavy, and it recoils way more than a traditional gas gun. From what I can tell the POF is probably similar. Without the ability to adjust the gas/piston and bolt weight, it will probably be about the same. HK has an extremely heavy buffer which adds I feel to the problem. Oh well can't pick them all but I do appreciate all your comments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havotec1 Posted June 30, 2008 Author Share Posted June 30, 2008 If I do choose to sell and go with a JP does anyone know which one would be the best and approximately how much I'm looking at? I would like an 18 inch and only need the upper. thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kellyn Posted July 1, 2008 Share Posted July 1, 2008 I've had 2 POF uppers and both have been successful competition rifles. The 1st one was a 1 MOA gun and always worked. The 2nd one is even more accurate but I don't have enough rounds through it to make any definitive declarations as to its reliability. I have not found them to be to heavy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bear1142 Posted July 2, 2008 Share Posted July 2, 2008 I've been using an 18" POF as a competition rifle for almost 2 years. I'm getting 1 MOA accuracy with my handloads and it's been extremely reliable. The POF will hit you a little harder in the shoulder, but a good comp setup will still keep you on target. I've done some little tweaks that have softened the impulse of my POF enough that it's as soft as a standard AR. Erik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jobob Posted July 2, 2008 Share Posted July 2, 2008 I've been using an 18" POF as a competition rifle for almost 2 years. I'm getting 1 MOA accuracy with my handloads and it's been extremely reliable. The POF will hit you a little harder in the shoulder, but a good comp setup will still keep you on target. I've done some little tweaks that have softened the impulse of my POF enough that it's as soft as a standard AR.Erik You're experience is close to mine. The weight isn't a problem. My only complaint is the recoil impulse. Mine works great, but the recoil is a bit harsh, not hard, just harsh. Has a violent feeling to it. I like soft when I'm trying to stay on target. I've tried a number of comps, reversing the piston, but haven't softened the recoil much. Care to elaborate on the little tweaks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jobob Posted July 5, 2008 Share Posted July 5, 2008 (edited) FWIW, just a little update. I shot my POF today using the full length buffer tube and buffer, w/ A1 stock. That was a real improvement over the carbine stock! The recoil impulse is noticeably less. The feel is much softer than before, almost as soft as my 16" DPMS. I also tried the rilfe length Enadine hydraulic buffer, and that made no noticeable improvement, although the carbine version does seem to shoot softer.....in carbines. Also, when I installed the rifle length Enadine my groups seemed to open up subsantially. Not sure why that is, but when I reinstalled the standard buffer the groups tightened back down. I'm thinking the hydraulic buffer effects the lock up somehow. Or the action unlocks easier, and sooner, or something. Edited July 5, 2008 by jobob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastshooter03 Posted July 6, 2008 Share Posted July 6, 2008 I shot my 16" recon yesterday with some Horn 75 handloads(tac powder) and it worked fine with the gas cylinder turned around. Accuracy was OK but those hornadys are junk anyways. Bad batch I think. I have a PRS stock on that one and I was running a light plastic buffer. I have a fishgill brake on it but I think it was jumping really bad due to the light buffer. I might try an extra power spring but I think a standard weight or heavier buffer might be better. At 20x on bipod it would jump to left or right way off the target. On a normal AR this brake will keep you on an IPSC target at 20x. I am going to load up some 69 sierras and see how she does then. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jobob Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 Hornadays are junk? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Bond Posted July 8, 2008 Share Posted July 8, 2008 Having used a POF and a ZM (now Para AR see topic in this thread), I have a strong preference for the ZM/Para. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jobob Posted July 8, 2008 Share Posted July 8, 2008 Having used a POF and a ZM (now Para AR see topic in this thread), I have a strong preference for the ZM/Para. Care to elaborate? Pros/cons? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bear1142 Posted July 8, 2008 Share Posted July 8, 2008 Jobob, Give me a day or so and I'm PM you some ideas regarding the POF. Erik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted July 8, 2008 Share Posted July 8, 2008 NO! Erik, we are Americans, we want it NOW! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastshooter03 Posted July 8, 2008 Share Posted July 8, 2008 Hornadays are junk? I like the v-maxs somewhat(never tried the A-Maxs) but the 75 grn HPBT Match Won't shoot out of any of my ARs no matter what powder I try(ran out of 68s years ago). I measured the base to Ogive on 1 box and it looked like the bullets came off of at least 3 different presses or batches. So I'm not sure if that was the problem or just the way they are designed. Point is ALL my ARs will shoot Sierra 69s with just about any powder I try. So yes Hornaday HPBT match is junk IMO. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jobob Posted July 8, 2008 Share Posted July 8, 2008 The Black Hills load with the 75 Hornadays groups pretty well in my POF. In my other guns, with 1:9 twists, it seems borderline. I think it generally needs more than 1:9. My POF is 1:8 and it shoots the Hornadays fine, though I still use 55s for most of my shooting. I've always had great accuracy with Hornaday hunting bullets in my rifles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vsound Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 I have a custom POF build that I absolutely love. Sub-MOA (~0.75) with optics and the right ammo, and under 2 MOA with surplus Lake City and iron sights. Description: Rock River lower with 6-position collapsible stock (lower now has Timney trigger group - not pictured) Ergo grip POF 415 carbine length upper ABS carbon fiber 16" barrel - 5R rifling 1/8 twist, Wylde chamber Custom Samson carbine length rail Dreadnaught F2 compensator Hayes Research HK-style drum rear sight and hooded front sight (now has Trijicon Reflex II -not pictured) KNS crosshair insert for front sight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike cyrwus Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 I have a POF P-308 carbine on order; why? cause they look cool! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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