building new rifle

[ken hebert]

I'm wanting to build a competative rifle for sniper/MOR, and I believe I want it chambered in standard .243 Winchester. I'm taking some cues from George at GA precision there, I liked what he had to say on the subject at 6mmbr.com. There is a very good riflesmith here in my area who has already tuned up my Rem 700 5R and I'm very pleased with, and he will do the work. Start with a youth model 700 in .243 and take off the stock and barrel. Install a Hart (he prefers them) barrel and possibly a brake of his design. I like the McMillan A5 stock, and I am leaning towards the Badger Ordnance trigger guard/bottom metal with the detachable 5 and 10 round mags. Badger bolt knob, and possibly their rings and bases to just for the sake of uniformity.

This is the rough outline, and what I'd like from you is to help me tweak my choices if need be. I've not set up a rifle for MOR/sniper matches before and am looking for some input from those of you who have been there and done that. I have looked at snipershide.com, but I can't post there (email restriction) and frankly there is a TON of topics to sort through. I've browsed some of the sniper match sites, but none I've found really go in depth about the how and the why of rifle design.

Thank you.

Ken

[uscbigdawg]

Well, at first glance, before spending money on the parts, look at the Crusader rifle from George Gardner. It basically is everything that you've stated above, although a better action. When I have my "kit" done, it'll basically be comprised of two rifles. 308 for matches under 600. 243 for beyond. I haven't TOTALLY committed to learning this game yet, but it's definitely something cool to add.

Rich

[Joe4d]

It was only recently I learned what MOR stood for but I do know and love the .243. Rifling is the key. make sure it matches the bullets you plan on using. I would assume for long range stuff you'd want the 100 gr's but there are advantages to the 105 and 80's. standard 243 rifling is made to be OK for 80-100 gr bullets and may not be great with the 105's. I found IMR 4064 to be the best powder in my carbine length barrels.

[mjbine]

I am having .243 AI made for 600 and beyond. Only a couple more months before it's here. I plan on shooting 115gr DTAC bullets from David Tubbs. They are sweet.

[Merlin Orr]

In your particular case I would strongly suggest you consider Daisy as a viable option.

[HoMiE]

It was only recently I learned what MOR stood for but I do know and love the .243. Rifling is the key. make sure it matches the bullets you plan on using. I would assume for long range stuff you'd want the 100 gr's but there are advantages to the 105 and 80's. standard 243 rifling is made to be OK for 80-100 gr bullets and may not be great with the 105's. I found IMR 4064 to be the best powder in my carbine length barrels.

+1 Rifle twist is key when you want to go long and shoot the heavy bullets in .243.

[smokshwn]

Ken,

Your setup is very similar to what George would build you. with the exception of the hart barrel. If you are going to get into a $2500-$3000 + optics I would go with a top line barrel maker. Krieger, Obermeyer, Rock, and recently Bartlein has been getting some rave reviews and producing some barrels that are very "fast".

I by no means am an expert, but if you called George I am sure he would be more than willing to help you out with a little advice....be careful though he builds one hell of a rifle. Can't wait to order mine.

[ebg3]

Sounds like you'll have a nice set up when you are done. I have Hart barrels and they are very nice. Decide what bullet you want to shoot and contact the maker for twist recommendations. You may want to consider a Berger VLD, I think they make a 95gr VLD, and check their website for twist. The VLD has a very high ballistic coefficient and will perform well at distance. I would choose the lightest bullet with the highest BC to help with trajectory in this chambering.

[ken hebert]

In your particular case I would strongly suggest you consider Daisy as a viable option.

Then we'd be shooting the same power factor, huh?

[ken hebert]

What barrel length would be appropriate for this application? Since looking at the GA precision site, seems like most of his package guns have a 22" barrel, but I'm also guessing these are in .308, right? Does that make a difference?

BTW, right now I'm thinking of a 1-8 twist.

Edited June 13, 2008 by ken hebert

[Adam B]

a 260 Remington with a 1 in 8 twist is the way to go

[kgunz11]

If you are going to do long range you'll want the 26" barrel and I would not recommend a very heavy contour. Just about everyone is getting away from the #7 stuff as we've realized there is little to no gain. The extra bbl length in a lighter contour can provide additional needed FPS to keep you nice and flat.

The .243 is a good choice but it is a bbl burner. Don't believe what a lot of ppl will tell you about bbl life, some ppl like to blow smoke. I can tell you this much, the National Long Range High Power Champion from Camp Perry last year was John Whidden and his caliber of choice is a .243. We'll be quick to tell you though he has the ability to snatch off a bbl and set it back in a matter of minutes or just replace the tube (he's a sponsored shooter). He feels after 1200 rounds the bbl is going to have to have some attention. He runs the 105 Berger VLD around 3250 fps and there's not another load/bullet combo in a .243 that can touch it.

For what you are doing, I'd seriously look into a .260 Remington twisted for the 130-140 grain bullets. It will double the life of the .243 bbl. Any of the top bbl manufactures will build you a quality bbl. I have a friend that is an accomplished shooter that wants nothing but Hart bbls, they work really well for him. Records don't lie. John Whidden uses nothing but Broughton barrels.

There are tons of choices, and I've tried them all just about. I started getting rid of all the odd ball stuff and focus on 2 calibers now. I have the .308 for those matches that wont let you run anything else (and there are a lot of them like that) and I have the 7WSM for everything else. A 180 Berger VLD at 2950fps is a BEAUTIFUL thing and with the right brake it kicks less than a .308.

[ken hebert]

What are we calling "not a very heavy contour"? Something like 0.750"?

[kgunz11]

I am really fond of the medium palma contour and fluted and it's one of George's stocking options. It would be the way I went. I have a medium palma .260 bbl out in the shop and a .308, both blanks. I'll build on them one of these days. My next rifle is going to be a 7-08 in a Manners or McMillan stock set up for deer hunting. I'll prolly use a Sendero contour for that application.

The bbl on your 5R rifle is a medium Palma.

My 7WSM is a fluted #7 Bartlein and when it's gone I'm going to replace it with a smaller profile. I might take the bbl on it and set it back to a 7-08 and cut it down to 22" for a deer rifle. It's twisted for the 162 and up bullets.

[ken hebert]

BTW, I do realise that .260 Rem is a premium caliber for MOR, but I can't help just liking .243 Win, shot one as a kid from about age 8 up to 18, killed many, many, many deer with it. That, and I have a pile of brass and bullets already.

I was thinking of the 1-8 twist already from reading of great accuracy with the 100-115 gn projectiles, specifically the DTAC and Berger VLD's.

[kgunz11]

You'll be happy with an 8 twist I imagine. I built a 6Dasher and used the 7.5 and it was perfect. I'd go no slower than a 8 though.

[ken hebert]

Okay, so what type of muzzle brake should I be considering?

[kgunz11]

The Badger that George uses isn't bad, but it doesn't compare the the Patriot Arms brake. Matter of fact, at the last Allegheny Sniper Challenge George was using a Patriot Brake he got off of one of my barrels. I have pics of a 5 yr old girl shooting a .338 Lapua Magnum with a Patriot Brake. It's by far the most effective brake I have ever shot.

Contact Jered Joplin @ Patriot Arms and discuss it with him. He is also a premier custom rifle builder and a great guy to talk to. George can be hard to get a hold of at times, Jered will share his knowledge over the phone for hours on end.

Jered can be contacted by phone at 706-367-8881, or by email at j_joplin@msn.com.

[ken hebert]

Man, I appreciate that, but I can't call up a businessman/gunsmith and pick his brain knowing full well I am going to get someone else to do the work. That just ain't right and I can't do it.

I will, however, check out this Patriot brake. Thanks.

[kgunz11]

Trust me bro, Jered LOVES talking on the phone and he wont mind discussing his knowledge of your choices. He does this for a living and has a passion for it. He wont mind the fact someone else is building your rifle. He's 32 years old and just got back from a honeymoon in Costa Rica, but prepared to hear about 200 lb. Goliath Grouper when you call. :wink:

If you use a Patriot Brake there is only one place to get one and that is through him and him alone. His brake is a proprietary design. Give him a ring and ask him why it's the best out there.

[ken hebert]

You sound very insistant... Okay then. Next week.

Since we're on a roll here, how about optics? Last time I guessed what I wanted on a rifle (my 5R) I don't think Ii picked quite correctly.

[kgunz11]

Without a doubt Nightforce. Experts agree it's the best bang for the buck. The new FFP should be out by the time you get your rifle built. If you're serious about competitive shooting it's the route to go.

I like the 5.5x22x50 with the NP-R1 reticle. I am partial to that reticle as I was instrumental in its development and making it a stock option.

[BigDave]

Without a doubt Nightforce. Experts agree it's the best bang for the buck. The new FFP should be out by the time you get your rifle built. If you're serious about competitive shooting it's the route to go.

I like the 5.5x22x50 with the NP-R1 reticle. I am partial to that reticle as I was instrumental in its development and making it a stock option.

I have heard the same thing. I met a SEAL rifle instructor by accident at the range and we got to talking about that subject. The way he put it is that they get to try everything and Nightforce was the only glass that could repeat zeros. I don't know much about them, but I thought it was a great endorsement.

[Viggen]

The .243 is a nice hunting round but for MOR my understanding was that a short barrel life was the issue.

Maybe check out previous links regarding the caliber and barrel life before spending the money.

Still, I do like those little 6mm's.

[smokshwn]

You sound very insistant... Okay then. Next week.

Since we're on a roll here, how about optics? Last time I guessed what I wanted on a rifle (my 5R) I don't think Ii picked quite correctly.

No doubt Noghtforce makes decent glass. But the promise of the FFP is similar to everyone elses promise. It may arrive on time and it may not.

Also consider a budget for glass first. The leupold, nighforce, IOR route is one level where you get what that company offers. If you go up a level you get into US Optics which will build a scope to your specs to include reticles, adjustments, colors, etc. etc. It may be a simplistic analogy but Nightforce to US Optics is like STI to Full house custom gun.

I would suggest matching you reticle with your adjustments either MIL/MIL or MOA/MOA. Using a MOA reticle with MIL adjustments is a loser. I know you don't want to hear this but this subject may require a little reading. SH's optic section is a great resource.

Take care, Craig