kgunz11 Posted June 14, 2008 Share Posted June 14, 2008 You sound very insistant... Okay then. Next week.Since we're on a roll here, how about optics? Last time I guessed what I wanted on a rifle (my 5R) I don't think Ii picked quite correctly. No doubt Noghtforce makes decent glass. But the promise of the FFP is similar to everyone elses promise. It may arrive on time and it may not. Also consider a budget for glass first. The leupold, nighforce, IOR route is one level where you get what that company offers. If you go up a level you get into US Optics which will build a scope to your specs to include reticles, adjustments, colors, etc. etc. It may be a simplistic analogy but Nightforce to US Optics is like STI to Full house custom gun. I would suggest matching you reticle with your adjustments either MIL/MIL or MOA/MOA. Using a MOA reticle with MIL adjustments is a loser. I know you don't want to hear this but this subject may require a little reading. SH's optic section is a great resource. Take care, Craig As an owner of multiple USO and Nightforce I offered my honest opinion. I've never had to send a NF back cuz it looked worse than a Super Sniper. The FFP NF scopes are on schedule and a few new really nice options are very close (more minutes per revolution). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uscbigdawg Posted June 14, 2008 Share Posted June 14, 2008 I'll throw my S&B PM II into the mix any time. Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken hebert Posted June 14, 2008 Author Share Posted June 14, 2008 I'm trying to consider a budget for the whole rifle, not just the optic! Partly the reason I'm thinking .243 Win. (as a side note, if I do manage to shoot out the barrel I suppose I could rechamber/rebarrel it in .260 Rem. at that point all the time I spent with the .243 would have been practicing, cheaper) I also want to be honest with myself and with those of you who are assisting me (and the others reading this thread, too). I am at best a weekend warrior, and I honestly feel that while high end glass would be great, and at some point in the future I could appreciate it/need it, I don't feel I am currently anywhere near that level. I've got Leupold on almost all of my current rifles save for one Meopta/AR combo. They work good for me and up to this point I've not felt limited by them. Don't get me wrong, I want USO and Nightforce, I just don't think I'm good enough to justify that yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgunz11 Posted June 14, 2008 Share Posted June 14, 2008 I'll throw my S&B PM II into the mix any time.Rich At nearly $3000.00 now I'd bet you would. Ken, I started out with a Leupold MK IV 6.5x20x50 and think it is a great scope. I'd recommend getting one with mil knobs. It's not a requirement, but it helps. If you're just going to do a little sport shooting though, pick up a used one with MOA knobs used off of one of the boards in the $700 to $800 range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken hebert Posted June 14, 2008 Author Share Posted June 14, 2008 Know what you're talking about there, I've got the 6.5x20x40 30mm on my 5R. What is a competative power range on a MOR rifle? Something like a 3.5x10, 4.5x14, or 6.5x20? Or larger? Suggested reticle? Aside from the NP-R2, haha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgunz11 Posted June 14, 2008 Share Posted June 14, 2008 In a Leupold I like the 6.5x20 but that's because I shot a lot at 1000 yards. For a good all around practical rifle the 4.5x14 is tough to beat! And I'd go for the TMR reticle in a Leupold. Better for holds and milling distance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M118LR Posted June 14, 2008 Share Posted June 14, 2008 I would start out with a 308 and then work my way up to a 260 or a 243. The 243 is a barrel burner. You will get a longer barrel life out of a 308. GA George builds all my rifles. He will be building my next rifle which will be a 243. He also like to use Bartlein barrels. I have a 308 and 260 he built for me and they have Bartlein barrels. As for a muzzle brake, George has a Benny Cooley comp on his 243. It is a very SOFT shooting rifle. I would recommend getting the Badger brake. That is what I have on my 260. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokshwn Posted June 14, 2008 Share Posted June 14, 2008 You sound very insistant... Okay then. Next week.Since we're on a roll here, how about optics? Last time I guessed what I wanted on a rifle (my 5R) I don't think Ii picked quite correctly. No doubt Noghtforce makes decent glass. But the promise of the FFP is similar to everyone elses promise. It may arrive on time and it may not. Also consider a budget for glass first. The leupold, nighforce, IOR route is one level where you get what that company offers. If you go up a level you get into US Optics which will build a scope to your specs to include reticles, adjustments, colors, etc. etc. It may be a simplistic analogy but Nightforce to US Optics is like STI to Full house custom gun. I would suggest matching you reticle with your adjustments either MIL/MIL or MOA/MOA. Using a MOA reticle with MIL adjustments is a loser. I know you don't want to hear this but this subject may require a little reading. SH's optic section is a great resource. Take care, Craig As an owner of multiple USO and Nightforce I offered my honest opinion. I've never had to send a NF back cuz it looked worse than a Super Sniper. The FFP NF scopes are on schedule and a few new really nice options are very close (more minutes per revolution). Apologies all around, I didn't realize that I was not allowed to offer my own opinion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgunz11 Posted June 14, 2008 Share Posted June 14, 2008 You sound very insistant... Okay then. Next week.Since we're on a roll here, how about optics? Last time I guessed what I wanted on a rifle (my 5R) I don't think Ii picked quite correctly. No doubt Noghtforce makes decent glass. But the promise of the FFP is similar to everyone elses promise. It may arrive on time and it may not. Also consider a budget for glass first. The leupold, nighforce, IOR route is one level where you get what that company offers. If you go up a level you get into US Optics which will build a scope to your specs to include reticles, adjustments, colors, etc. etc. It may be a simplistic analogy but Nightforce to US Optics is like STI to Full house custom gun. I would suggest matching you reticle with your adjustments either MIL/MIL or MOA/MOA. Using a MOA reticle with MIL adjustments is a loser. I know you don't want to hear this but this subject may require a little reading. SH's optic section is a great resource. Take care, Craig As an owner of multiple USO and Nightforce I offered my honest opinion. I've never had to send a NF back cuz it looked worse than a Super Sniper. The FFP NF scopes are on schedule and a few new really nice options are very close (more minutes per revolution). Apologies all around, I didn't realize that I was not allowed to offer my own opinion No Sir, you misunderstood me. What I was trying to say to you is exactly what you just said to me, I was just trying to do it in a nice manner (no rolling eyes and no sarcasm). I was just saying I stated my opinion. I agree with you the USO has the custom options, but does that make it more reliable than a NF? No. Does it make it worth $1000 more in most cases? No. Simply my opinion, YMMV. I like the US Optics scopes but can I recommend it over a NF? No again. I've never had a problem with any of my NF scopes. I had one lemon USO that was eventually replaced. USO customer service is top notch too. Please accept my apology as I wasn't trying to de-validate your opinion, just commenting on why I feel the way I do. In any case, buy American as often as you can and NF is every bit as American as US Optics. Either scope would be a good choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Dunn Posted June 14, 2008 Share Posted June 14, 2008 Anything mechanical can fail, no matter who builds it. I tipped over my rifle with my leg as it was resting on the bipod, so it fell a max of 12 inches or so. The Nightforce lost its zero and wouldn't hold a new zero after that. They fixed the scope (rebedded the lenses, excellent interaction with customer service) without any problems and it has worked fine since. I've never had a problem with my Leupolds, USOs, or Schmidt and Benders, or Bushnells for that matter. Pick a decent scope and then shoot it. Don't feel like you must have a FFP scope to do good work, either, it's just a matter of learning how to make the most of what you have. The shrinky-dink/overly huge reticle on the FFP scopes can be disconcerting at first, especially if you are used to SFP reticles like most Americans. Make sure any brake you get doesn't vent down, the cloud of dust they can throw up is truly impressive. Barrel life is not a fixed number, a barrel is shot-out when it will no longer group as it should. For a benchrest type this might mean a barrel is toast when the groups open up past 0.4, for MOR 1 MOA may be perfectly fine. To say a barrel will be shot out after 1,200 rds is a bit of prognostication. Hart makes a good barrel, they have plenty of wins in their column, all the makers listed are good...so are Lilja, Shilen, Schneider, Lothar-Walther, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandro Posted June 14, 2008 Share Posted June 14, 2008 (edited) I'll throw my S&B PM II into the mix any time.Rich +1, S&B’s glass quality is far superior of anything else I seeing out there. S&B is the best scope “if” you want the best scope. You get what you pay for! sorry for the gun porn. I love this gun more than anything in my gun safe. Edited June 14, 2008 by Sandro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Religious Shooter Posted June 14, 2008 Share Posted June 14, 2008 For a starter gun I would also go for .308. Take into consideration that there are some matches that only allow .308. Also take into consideration that USPSA PR can be significantly different than Sniper/Tactical matches. USPSA PR can have the same stages as Sniper/Tactical matches. But in addition USPSA PR can also have converted pistol or rifle stages. Basically take your typical USPSA pistol stage and extend the range a little bit and require only one shot on the paper. Imagine shooting a stage like that with a 28" 18 lb bolt rifle that is geared more for prone position and longer ranges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken hebert Posted June 14, 2008 Author Share Posted June 14, 2008 Well, I've already got a good shooting .308. I like new (to me) guns, and I get personal enjoyment out of purchasing, building up, and eventually shooting something new. Made the first steps today, traded in an older Springfield 9mm that I've not pulled the trigger on in some time on a new Rem700 SPS Varmit. I'll order the Badger parts next week (triggerguard/DBM kit + mags and the bolt knob) and a stock, still leaning to the McMillan A5. I did decide to try out the factory barrel first, and if I am not pleased with what I end up with to then replace it with an aftermarket Lilja/Hart/Rock. Still haven't made up my mind about rings and bases, but I do believe I have decided on a 4.5x14 Leupold and I will try the TMR reticle. If you are reading this and shaking your head, just remember I don't have as much expierence nor am I as good as you are now. This will be a jumping off point for me, not technically what will be the exact end product. Thats why I'm not building it up with high dollar top notch stuff right off the bat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgunz11 Posted June 14, 2008 Share Posted June 14, 2008 Ken, I honestly don't think you could have made a wiser decision. You're bbl will be twisted a 1-12 and I have some 155 Berger loads I'll share with you as well as some 175 SMK loads. The 155 grain bullets will most likely outperform the 175 in every aspect. On the scope, perfect choice. Take the money you are saving on a gunsmith and barrel and buy reloading components with it. Don't beat yourself up about your choice, I honestly believe it was the perfect choice for your situation. If there's anything I can do to help feel free to PM me. Hold Hard, Bobby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken hebert Posted June 15, 2008 Author Share Posted June 15, 2008 Wait wait wait... I think you misunderstood me. I already had the .308, I bought/ordered the .243 today. The .308 is staying the way it is, unless I decide I like the DMB. Still think I made a good choice...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgunz11 Posted June 15, 2008 Share Posted June 15, 2008 Oops. Yeah, solid platform. You've picked good components. In the .243 I like VV and 105 Bergers that come out the tube really fast. Go big or go home! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken hebert Posted June 15, 2008 Author Share Posted June 15, 2008 Well, I don't think that the factory twist will do 100% with pills of that weight. It's a 1-9.25, so that means lighter than 105's, right? In the 75 to 85 grain weight...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgunz11 Posted June 15, 2008 Share Posted June 15, 2008 You might be able to get a 105 or 107 to work, you'll just have to try it. Anything less than a 105 is just pissing in the wind when you increase the distance... literally!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M118LR Posted June 15, 2008 Share Posted June 15, 2008 Still haven't made up my mind about rings and bases You can not go wrong with Badger rings and a base. There is also Seekin, TPS, Larue, and Warner. I also have used the EGW base. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uscbigdawg Posted June 15, 2008 Share Posted June 15, 2008 On magnification, the Leupy 3.5-10x is awesome and is perfectly fine to 1000. Ask the AMU Sniper teams. 4.5-14x is great too. Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken hebert Posted June 16, 2008 Author Share Posted June 16, 2008 Yeah, I have figured out that there can be such a thing as too much magnification. When I was browsing the 3-gun rifle forums before I started my first build, I thought all ya'll were crazy for going with a 1x4 for any kind of distance shooting. Now I know better. Same thing with the 6.5x20 on my .308, I thought that would be about the minimum I would want. Wrong. I find myself using it on about 10x to 12x more than anything, and I've run it to 525 yards on self-resetting plates. I will try the 105's as you suggested, can't hurt right? Might get lucky. Since the Badger rings and bases are well received, I might as well make the whole gun match. BTW, I caught an error in an earlier statement I made. Said something about changing a .243 over to a .260 later down the road. Can't do that, can I? The .260 is a long action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Sierpina Posted June 16, 2008 Share Posted June 16, 2008 BTW, I caught an error in an earlier statement I made. Said something about changing a .243 over to a .260 later down the road. Can't do that, can I? The .260 is a long action. .260 is on a short action. Based on the .308 case, as is the .243. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken hebert Posted June 16, 2008 Author Share Posted June 16, 2008 Now that I think about it, you're right. Don't know what I was thinking. Since they have the same parent case, will the .260's feed in the same .308 style mags? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgary Posted June 16, 2008 Share Posted June 16, 2008 Yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgunz11 Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 If you want you can send me your AICS mags and I can modify them to accept longer COAL if you see you need that. I run my 7WSM out of a short action and modify my mags to accept a loaded round as long as 2.93". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now