What powder is comparable for 4756 in 38 Super?

[Jack Suber]

Just out of curiosity, what powder is comparable for 4756 in a 38 Super with 124 grn bullets? I really like the 4756. However, given the case volumn required and the fact that I am loading for two shooters, I am REALLY burning this stuff up. So, being cheaper than VV might not be cost effective for me because of how much I am using. I am using (an estimate) of a pound of powder for every 1000 rounds (again that is an estimate...I will start to monitor that very closely now, but it is close). So, if I am eating up the savings in powder costs in the 4756, I am beginning to wonder if I will be better off with a more expensive (less volumn) powder that will give the same performance. Any thoughts?

[Ming the Merciless]

7,000 grains to the pound so if you're loading 7.0 grains per round = 1,000 round per pound.

[Jack Suber]

7,000 grains to the pound so if you're loading 7.0 grains per round = 1,000 round per pound.

Hmmm.. I am loading 8.6 grns in one gun and 9.0 in another. So, that is at less than 1000/rnds per lb. I may have to go back to Production!

[AZ38super]

Jack,

I hear ya there.

Last time I bought VV 350 it was $80.00 @ 4 pounds. so at 7 grains that is 4,000 rounds approx at .02 cents a round.

Last purchase of 4756 was $120.00 @ 8 pounds so at 7 grains that is 8,000 rounds approx .015 cents a round.

The actual difference in cost doesn't seem like much but you know I like the 4756 better after shooting it a while and went to use up some old rounds of 350 I could really see the difference from a shooting aspect. Plus it is easier to get.

[redwoods]

I was using 8.9 grains and thought that shooting my limited gun with 4.3 grains was cheaper.

Shooting my open gun is cheaper than shooting my limited gun

Bullet price + powder

[sargenv]

Longshot can probably work, i think I was loading like 7.5 gr with a 135 and making major easily. Some people like SR 7625 for major. Also there is that old time powder Blue Dot.. and um.. HS6 should still be available. Alliant Power Pistol should be in the same range and can be used for super. Of all of these powders I prefer Longshot or 4756.

[XRe]

What do you mean by comparable, Jack? Comparable in performance? In price per round?

The volume of powder you're loading means nothing. Its charge weight that determines cost per round As someone stated, 7000 grains per pound. I buy 4756 16# at a time from Powder Valley, and usually with 10K primers at the same time. So, say $10 in shipping and Hazmat per container - I pay $120 for it. That's $15 per pound, or slightly less than 2 cents per round in powder. 3N38 for me would be around 2.3 or 2.4 cents per round. N105 is over 3 cents a round. 7625 is 2.1 cents per round. In my gun, 4756 burns cleanest of all of those, and runs the gun best, so far.

Now.... factor that against the cost of the bullet... See, in Open, you're going to burn powder. That's just all there is to it But, its not a huge amount more cash per thousand rounds than Production.

[shred]

I switched from 4756 to 7625-- much easier to load and it works for me. It does have a different feel.

[shooterbenedetto]

I switched from VV n350 to IMR 7625. I love this powder and will also use it for 38super per Henning Wallgreen. This powder is not dirty at all in my open 9mm. I currently use Montana Gold bullets but If someone can come up with a good load and find a way to shoot bear creeks, I'm all for it! Bear creek bullets are 37.00 per thousand against 83.00 for Zero bullets? Imagine that! my only problem with these, are leading in the lands a Ring in the chamber (bad Jams) and off course leading in the comp??

Edited June 8, 2008 by shooterbenedetto

[R.Elliott]

All of the slower powders in the same burn rate range as 4756 will use similar charge weights. 4756 is a flake powder so it doesn't pack densely in the case like the Viht powders do, and therefore it seems like more volume than it really is. 8.6 grains of 4756 is the same weight as 8.6 grains of 3N37; it just looks different, and 3N37...or any of the VV options... is a hell of a lot more expensive. 4756 is a good, cheap alternative in that speed range so if you like it you may not find a significant savings elsewhere unless you opt for faster burn rates.

Powders like 7625 are faster, so they use a little less powder per charge to make the same power factor, but they tend to feel a little sharper/snappier to shoot. Depends on what sort of feel you like.

FWIW: at 9.0 grains you'll get about 777 rounds out of a pound. Assuming $15.00/lb for the powder it's about two cents a shot. You'll want to figure the cost per round before you change to a more expensive powder.

Good luck

[Jack Suber]

Just a little follow-up - We started using 4756 iun my son's gun per the recommendation of Derek at Millenium (Derek built the gun). He said 4756 is ideal for 124s because of the burn rate/and the gases being used more efficiently in the comp. He recommended 7526 for 115s. I did try 7625 in both of our guns with the 124s and thought the recoil cycling was much more violent than with 4756. More important, however, was that I was seeing pressure signs with the 7625 at 165 PF. At 170, I had significant primer flow/flattening with the 7625 and 124s. We can get 170 with the 4756 and we are seing absolutely no pressure signs. My son could definitely tell the difference in the feel of the loads when I alternated them in his mag. I think the softer feeling 124s with 4756 was easier for him to shoot.

Yesterday, I tried 115s with 7625. I was rather pleased with that load. It felt as soft, maybe softer, than the 124 load with 4756. I loaded a mag alternating 124s with 4756 and 115s with 7625. In my gun, I think the 115s shot a little flatter. It appeared to me that the dot was back on target a little quicker. I didn;t really have a chance to test with a timer, but I definitely will do more. I think we might use 115s for steel so that might be the way to go.

I guess I was looking for a powder with comparable burn rate and performace, with less charge weight. Not sure that will be possible. Each has their pros and cons with different bullets.

[larry cazes]

Be careful with IMR 7625 in major 38super loads with 115 grain bullets. I had significant pressure issues with that combination that ultimately caused me to switch to another powder. I also found that it varied so much lot to lot that I actually couldnt make major with a full case using 115s with some of the more recent lots. Alot of people seem to get away with using it but if you do a search on the forum here there are plenty of folks that have had problems.