G35 Firing Out of Battery

[Jack Suber]

What will make a Glock 35 fire out of battery? A friend of mine has had it happen twice in the last two weeks. The case ruptured at the bottom and blew the mag out of the bottom. Today, the case molded itself to opening of chamber - clearly not having been in battery. Today's failure took the mag release with it. Checking the pistol, I discovered that I can fire it with the slide about 1/8" out of battery. I assume that this is not right. Any feedback/help for someone not familiar with Glocks would be appreciated. Thanks.

[Nik Habicht]

What will make a Glock 35 fire out of battery? A friend of mine has had it happen twice in the last two weeks. The case ruptured at the bottom and blew the mag out of the bottom. Today, the case molded itself to opening of chamber - clearly not having been in battery. Today's failure took the mag release with it. Checking the pistol, I discovered that I can fire it with the slide about 1/8" out of battery. I assume that this is not right. Any feedback/help for someone not familiar with Glocks would be appreciated. Thanks.

Jack,

is it a stock 35? I'd look to the recoil spring first, assuming everything else is stock......

....if modified, it could be a combination of too many "edge-pushing" parts, or again something worn out.....

[Jman]

Have read in the past of this happening when a worn recoil spring is replaced and leaving the same old striker spring in it. And visa-versa. Also, closely check the condition the locking block. Food for thought. Hope you get running again.

Jim M

[HSMITH]

Put the stock springs back in it, put the rest of the stock parts back in it and tell him to quit screwing with it until he knows what he is doing. A guy can get hurt doing things like that. Glocks are one of THE most difficult guns to tune RIGHT that you will find. Thousands of guys do it, probably only a handful that do it RIGHT. If he really can't shoot it more or less stock he needs to get it to a GOOD Glock guy or sell it and move on.

[coltgov]

It may be ammo related also.

If he is shooting reloads that were not carefully loaded

Such as it has not been sized and crimped correctly or the

bullet profile used is loaded at a too long OAL and not allowing it to go completely into battery.

Both will leave that 1/8 out of battery gap causing the ruptures.

[Flexmoney]

Put the stock springs back in it, put the rest of the stock parts back in it and tell him to quit screwing with it until he knows what he is doing. A guy can get hurt doing things like that. Glocks are one of THE most difficult guns to tune RIGHT that you will find. Thousands of guys do it, probably only a handful that do it RIGHT. If he really can't shoot it more or less stock he needs to get it to a GOOD Glock guy or sell it and move on.

+ 1

[Jack Suber]

Hmm. I don't recall stating that the owner did any work to the pistol.... Actually, a well known Glock expert worked on it about a year and half ago (trigger/striker/GR and springs). It just started doing this and since we can't get in touch with that person because of the holiday, I thought I would ask if it is something we can fix.

I was thinking that it might be the loads but my friend says he case guages all of his loads. Still, could his guage be looser than the barrel? Possible I guess. I do know that he has not cleaned the striker assembly (because he does not know how). So, I wondering if that can be part of it, too.

[Jman]

Jack. Just re-read the original post. My first thought was "aftermarket". This does not happen with factory Glocks and good ammo. A good "Glocksmith" needs to go over this gun. Only because of the severity of this malfunction. Feeding and extraction hic-ups aside, new springs work wonders there. But this particular guns need professional attention. A call to Glock customer service in the AM should be in order too.

As far as ammo. One of the best buys I've made was a case gauge made by EGW. A honest to God Glock expert recommended it. Puts the rest to shame.

Jim M

[HSMITH]

The Glock is held in battery by one spring and as you pull the trigger another spring is trying to open the gun. When these springs start to lose the balance they had the gun will start to come out of battery as you fire it. This guy has a gun that is DANGEROUS. Get in touch with your Glock jockey that worked it the first time and have him set up several more spring sets for the gun. Your buddy also needs to spend some time with this guy going over the maintenance of the gun and how to check the springs. There have been indications of this coming for a while if he knew what he was looking for. Sorry if the first post came off snotty, but I get a little ramped up about this subject. The gun as it came out of the box will run untold tens of thousands of rounds and never have this happen, the springs it was built with are as strong as they are for this very reason and the trigger pull is what it is on a stock Glock for this reason.

[Jack Suber]

Jack. Just re-read the original post. My first thought was "aftermarket". This does not happen with factory Glocks and good ammo. A good "Glocksmith" needs to go over this gun. Only because of the severity of this malfunction. Feeding and extraction hic-ups aside, new springs work wonders there. But this particular guns need professional attention. A call to Glock customer service in the AM should be in order too.

As far as ammo. One of the best buys I've made was a case gauge made by EGW. A honest to God Glock expert recommended it. Puts the rest to shame.

Jim M

Jim,

Yep. I agree. It needs to go to an expert. the fact that I can hold it out of battery (with about an 1/8 of inch of the guiderod visible from the front), squeeze the trigger and have the striker go, something definitely ain't right. Would a recoil spring affect that? My first guess was it was something to do with the striker plunger.

Not sure what case-guage is being used. I agree with you about the EGW. I have two. I also use the U-Die. Unfortunately, my friend loads on a Squaredeal, so a U-Die is not in the picture. I will have him re-check the OAL on the bullets, though, just to be sure. He is shooting 180 MG CMJs. I guess that shoulder can hit the rifling if loaded to long.

Thanks for the feedback. Take care.

[Jack Suber]

The Glock is held in battery by one spring and as you pull the trigger another spring is trying to open the gun. When these springs start to lose the balance they had the gun will start to come out of battery as you fire it. This guy has a gun that is DANGEROUS. Get in touch with your Glock jockey that worked it the first time and have him set up several more spring sets for the gun. Your buddy also needs to spend some time with this guy going over the maintenance of the gun and how to check the springs. There have been indications of this coming for a while if he knew what he was looking for. Sorry if the first post came off snotty, but I get a little ramped up about this subject. The gun as it came out of the box will run untold tens of thousands of rounds and never have this happen, the springs it was built with are as strong as they are for this very reason and the trigger pull is what it is on a stock Glock for this reason.

Thanks. I agree something definitely isn't Kosher. The owner knows basic cleaning of the pistol but nothing really technical. We shoot together a good bit. Unfortunately, I know zip about Glocks and would not recognize any indication of a problem beginning until this started happening. I believe it will be off to the smith this week. take care.

[Nik Habicht]

Jack,

if you point the owner here --- there's quite a bit to be found in written or linked form with a search. Might take a few days to dig through it all --- but it would be an education beyond basic maintenance.....

[Jack Suber]

Jack,

if you point the owner here --- there's quite a bit to be found in written or linked form with a search. Might take a few days to dig through it all --- but it would be an education beyond basic maintenance.....

Nik,

I made that recommendation today....hopefully we'll see him here soon.....Take care.

[jobob]

The Glock system is a balance of opposing spring tensions. Someone trying to get the perfect Glock trigger, slide action, or worn springs, can cause your problem. Mainly it's caused by not enough forward tension (recoil spring) to counteract the rearward tension of the firing pin and trigger bar springs. A light trigger job will replace the firing pin and trigger springs with weaker and heavier springs, respectively. The lighter firing pin spring will actually reduce the tendency for out of battery strikes. But the heavy trigger spring, combined with a weaker recoil spring (some are running 11lb or lighter recoil springs with coils cut off) can cause it. Sometimes replacing the trigger bar spring with the heavier spring, but leaving the heavier factory firing pin spring, combined with a light or weak recoil spring, can result in your friend's problem.

Try this test. After making SURE it is empty dry fire the gun. While keeping finger pressure on the trigger point the muzzle straight up and pull the slide back all the way. Then slowly let the slide go forward till it stops. It should go all the way into battery. If it doesn't, slowly bring the gun back to horizontal while still holding the trigger back. If the slide still doesn't go to battery by the time the gun reaches about 45 degrees the recoil spring is way too weak and needs replacing.

Better yet, get the gun to a good Glock jockey. I was fortunate that I didn't blow anything up during the early part of my learning curve (which I'm still on). Sounds like your friend isn't quite so lucky.

[rhett45acp]

Hi Jack,

I think I know the specific gun you are talking about. Please have your friend replace the recoil spring/rod with a stock Glock set. The suggestion of manually operating the slide to see if it goes back in battery is right on. When I was maintenance man on that gun, the springs were tossed every year, as I do on my own. It's probaly my fault for not mentioning this to the owner. It also needs a "deep" cleaning and the rest of the springs changed at this point.

I did offer to the owner to send me the trigger group for a polish job. (note - polish - not a trigger job, metal removal, spring coils clipped - just a polish job :-))

Keep in mind, Glocks are simple and wonderfully designed guns. Designed with lots of tolerance. They seem to go wrong when "we" start to engineer the "faults" out of the design.

I think I need to make a phone call this morning........

[rhett45acp]

Hi Jack,

WOW - What a simple phone call can reveal. First of all, Jack, thanks for all the help you are giving this shooter. They really appreciate it.

There are so many things wrong with this G35 setup that have little to do with Glocks. Some of the basic rules of this sport are being skipped. This shooter is close to quitting because of the KB and that is not good. We need to get this person back to the basics. (it's very difficult to assist being 800 miles away)

Several things that I picked up are just wrong IMHO.

They are just starting to reload. Our friend is using a Square Deal B. I am told they can load 10 rounds and all have different COL. Not Good.

I am told they are dropping 4.9 grs of Titegroup for 180 MG. IMHO that is way hot. - Not Good.

I am told that when the Gun KB they were using someone else's ammo - and that ammo was setup for a STI - Not Good.

IMHO - We need this shooter to go back to their G34 - white box Winchester for now. Get their confidence backup up and playing safe. Then we must get this shooter around an experienced reloader that can mentor them in the process.

I will order all the pieces to put that G35 back stock plus some spares. They can take the G35 to CR&G. The smith there is very good.

I do take a little responsibility here, because I assumed someone was doing what I do and doing it just like me. - Dumb on my part.

[Flexmoney]

The STI ammo...loaded long...would likely hold the gun out of battery.

That is enough right there. The rest....yikes. Let's get this guy back to stock.

[Jack Suber]

Perhaps. As I posted earlier, a VERY WELL known Glock person worked on this gun at the A6 a 2 years ago. I watched him fix the trigger/striker etc. The trigger had to be re-worked because it was aweful (heavy, crunchy). The Glock guy even stated that he was surprised at how poor it was. He even took the assembly out of his own pistol and put it in this gun. Prior to this work, the trigger was too long and heavy for this person to shoot accurately and confidently (small hands). The work that was done at the A6 improved accuracy and gun-handling considerably. Other than skateboard tape, I am not sure about anything else being done.

Can't answer for the variances in OAL - was not told about that. As for the charge, not sure about that either. 4.9 is what I load in my STI and that would seem to be too hot for a Glock. If I recall correctly, they chrono'd at 170 at Miss. From what I have seen of the brass, no evident pressure signs or buldging. I don't think the loads that KB'ed yesterday are STI loads...if they were loaded beyond 1.135 they would not fit in a Glock Mag, correct?

Regardless, I assume it will get to a good smith soon. IMO, our friend need to switch to an STI, anyway. He shoots them better; they can be tweeked for smaller hands; he can control the recoil better because of the weight; and, they can reach Major PF more safely than in a Glock.

Hi Jack,

WOW - What a simple phone call can reveal. First of all, Jack, thanks for all the help you are giving this shooter. They really appreciate it.

There are so many things wrong with this G35 setup that have little to do with Glocks. Some of the basic rules of this sport are being skipped. This shooter is close to quitting because of the KB and that is not good. We need to get this person back to the basics. (it's very difficult to assist being 800 miles away)

Several things that I picked up are just wrong IMHO.

They are just starting to reload. Our friend is using a Square Deal B. I am told they can load 10 rounds and all have different COL. Not Good.

I am told they are dropping 4.9 grs of Titegroup for 180 MG. IMHO that is way hot. - Not Good.

I am told that when the Gun KB they were using someone else's ammo - and that ammo was setup for a STI - Not Good.

IMHO - We need this shooter to go back to their G34 - white box Winchester for now. Get their confidence backup up and playing safe. Then we must get this shooter around an experienced reloader that can mentor them in the process.

I will order all the pieces to put that G35 back stock plus some spares. They can take the G35 to CR&G. The smith there is very good.

I do take a little responsibility here, because I assumed someone was doing what I do and doing it just like me. - Dumb on my part.

[bountyhunter]

The Glock is held in battery by one spring and as you pull the trigger another spring is trying to open the gun. When these springs start to lose the balance they had the gun will start to come out of battery as you fire it. This guy has a gun that is DANGEROUS.

See if it has a variable rate recoil spring. The aftermarket "recoil reducer" assemblies with two spring rates are notorious for this. I chucked the one for my G35 after I noticed it did not return solidly to battery because the lighter spring hasn't got much push there.

[RePete]

It's not called Glock Perfection for nothing!

It's called that for Marketing......

Maybe, but it doesnt change the fact that they got it right the first time!

[Flexmoney]

OK...that is fun and all...let's not drift away from the question. - Admin.

[jobob]

It would appear that use of reloads is a critical piece of information which was missing at the beginning of this thread. That throws a whole new light on things. The knee jerk response is to blame the gun, or modifications to the gun. Reloads most likely are at least a significant factor causing the KBs.

[Jack Suber]

It would appear that use of reloads is a critical piece of information which was missing at the beginning of this thread. That throws a whole new light on things. The knee jerk response is to blame the gun, or modifications to the gun. Reloads most likely are at least a significant factor causing the KBs.

Actually, the issue is with the gun. The trigger can be pulled and the striker will fall with the pistol out of battery - no ammo. So, that in itself is an issue with the pistol. The only other mod that has been done is a tungsten GR recommended by Julie G. I don't believe the recoil spring weight has been altered - though I do not believe it has been changed recently. I am not convinced that the trigger group that was installed was a lighter weight/competition set. The group came out of Dave Sevigny's gun (as I understand it, he does not use lighter trigger sets). Dave was kind enough to check this person's pistol at the A6 and realized the trigger was not right. After more than an hour of trying to correct the original trigger, he actually took the trigger bar/striker group out of his competition gun (he had just finished shooting) and installed it in my friends gun so that my friend could shoot the match (in 16 years of doing this sport, I have never seen a top shooter take parts out of his own pistol and give them to a shooter so they can compete. Dave would not let my friend pay him for the parts or his time. Dave is a class act). Given that was two years ago, I guess the springs involved would wear out, possibly being the culprit for the pistol firing out of battery.

As for the ammo, I must correct some erroneous points made in a previous post. First off, this shooter is being helped/taught by several very experienced reloaders. The press has been set-up and the loads worked up with supervision. The current load is 4.7 grns consistent with the max in Hodgdon's manual. OAL variances are not as significant as previously stated...rounds are varying between 1.131-1.135", consistent with mixed brands of brass. I get the same variances on my 1050 and 650 with mixed brass. They are being case-guaged in a Dillon guage. However, I have been told that when this ammo was checked with an EGW guage, about 20% of the loads that fit the Dillon guage would not fit the EGW guage. I find that interesting.

As for the STI loaded ammo, if they were loaded long...they would not be able to chamber in the pistol and could not be fired unless the pistol was firing out of battery (the original issue).

Fortunately, the pistol is on the way for repair. Thanks for the feebback.

Edited May 28, 2008 by Jack Suber

[bountyhunter]

It would appear that use of reloads is a critical piece of information which was missing at the beginning of this thread. That throws a whole new light on things. The knee jerk response is to blame the gun, or modifications to the gun. Reloads most likely are at least a significant factor causing the KBs.

Actually, the issue is with the gun. The trigger can be pulled and the striker will fall with the pistol out of battery - no ammo. So, that in itself is an issue with the pistol.

That's true, but to be fair: a lot of guns will. My Para ORD LDA 1640 certainly will.

In the case of the Glock, the striker releasing and coming forward does not necessarily mean it will fire:

The Glock does have a "safety" of sorts to try to prevent OB firing (the firing pin safety). The bump on the trigger bar raises the FP safety plunger so it can fire. If the slide shifts relative to the peak of that bump, it reduces the amount it raises it... and if the slide is far enough OB, it won't fire. Of course, that's a pretty crude safety (and may still fire a little bit OB) but that's what was put in the design to prevent OB firing.

In some cases of Glock trigger jobs designed for a "short pull", the striker releases with the trigger farther forward and the gun will devlop light strike misfires from the striker dinging the edge of the FP safety plunger from this effect.

Edited May 28, 2008 by bountyhunter

[Jack Suber]

It would appear that use of reloads is a critical piece of information which was missing at the beginning of this thread. That throws a whole new light on things. The knee jerk response is to blame the gun, or modifications to the gun. Reloads most likely are at least a significant factor causing the KBs.

Actually, the issue is with the gun. The trigger can be pulled and the striker will fall with the pistol out of battery - no ammo. So, that in itself is an issue with the pistol.

That's true, but to be fair: a lot of guns will. My Para ORD LDA 1640 certainly will.

In the case of the Glock, the striker releasing and coming forward does not necessarily mean it will fire:

The Glock does have a "safety" of sorts to try to prevent OB firing (the firing pin safety). The bump on the trigger bar raises the FP safety plunger so it can fire. If the slide shifts relative to the peak of that bump, it reduces the amount it raises it... and if the slide is far enough OB, it won't fire. Of course, that's a pretty crude safety (and may still fire a little bit OB) but that's what was put in the design to prevent OB firing.

In some cases of Glock trigger jobs designed for a "short pull", the striker releases with the trigger farther forward and the gun will devlop light strike misfires from the striker dinging the edge of the FP safety plunger from this effect.

Hmmm. I would have that LDA checked out. Because there is something wrong. I have two M&Ps with competition trigger jobs and they absolutely will not fire out of battery. Not to mention none of my other pistols Paras, STIs, Colts, or Brownings will. That is a definite safety issue.