What's a good time for a basic bill drill?

[PistolPete]

I was running some bill drills this afternoon and was wondering what I should be expecting for times. The drill I was doing was at the beep draw the gun and fire 6 "A"'s on an IPSC target at 30 feet. My times average 1.8 seconds with and average of a .8 first shot. This is with an open gun and only shooting A's not just hitting the target. I can get the time down a bit throwing shots on the target but that is pointless so I won't count those times.

Thanks,

Pete

[Matt Cheely]

1.8 is pretty good. The fastest I would expect to get down to would be around 1.6

[G-ManBart]

Sounds like a Master class time to me. The classic bill drill is at 7yds and you were at 10, so it makes your time even better. The big question is can you do it cold....walk up and with no practice at all do it.

[PistolPete]

Sounds like a Master class time to me. The classic bill drill is at 7yds and you were at 10, so it makes your time even better. The big question is can you do it cold....walk up and with no practice at all do it.

That is what I want to be able to do. However, my first time at the drill today was a 2.1 with a 1.1 second draw. Seems my splits are the same but my draw was MUCH slower. After doing a few 2.1's - 2.2's I started running the 1.8's and 1.9's. I'm working on some different techniques and trying to figure out which ones will work best for me.

[AlamoShooter]

Its an old question and hashed to bits last year in another thread. But I don't do a 1.8 Bill drill and don't do a .80 first shot.

I would place better if I could, but It does not hold me back much.

Even I got an M card

[Matt Cheely]

Its an old question and hashed to bits last year in another thread. But I don't do a 1.8 Bill drill and don't do a .80 first shot.

I would place better if I could, but It does not hold me back much.

Even I got an M card

+1

Don't put too much stock in a 1.6 bill drill. Not worth the ammo and time for practice.

[PistolPete]

Its an old question and hashed to bits last year in another thread. But I don't do a 1.8 Bill drill and don't do a .80 first shot.

I would place better if I could, but It does not hold me back much.

Even I got an M card

Currently I only have my B card but I'm training my ass off to get to where you're at which is the M Card. I also understand that doing a fast bill drill isn't the answer to an M card and a .8 draw isn't the answer either. There is a LOT more to it than that. I'm just trying to figure out where I am in relation to where I need to be for certain tasks.

I'm breaking my shooting down into segments and putting training in place to build on each segment. Currently my focus is shooting on the move as that is the skill that separates the B's from the M's and the people that place in the top 3 and the top 10.

Pete

[dirtypool40]

Don't put too much stock in a 1.6 bill drill. Not worth the ammo and time for practice.

I RARELY break 1.80. I just can't run the gun any faster. For me it's a split test more than anything. I think it's really an outmoded drill, especially at 7y.

15 & 25, ok now we're working.

[AlamoShooter]

Its an old question and hashed to bits last year in another thread. But I don't do a 1.8 Bill drill and don't do a .80 first shot.

I would place better if I could, but It does not hold me back much.

Even I got an M card

Currently I only have my B card but I'm training my ass off to get to where you're at which is the M Card. I also understand that doing a fast bill drill isn't the answer to an M card and a .8 draw isn't the answer either. There is a LOT more to it than that. I'm just trying to figure out where I am in relation to where I need to be for certain tasks.

I'm breaking my shooting down into segments and putting training in place to build on each segment. Currently my focus is shooting on the move as that is the skill that separates the B's from the M's and the people that place in the top 3 and the top 10.

Pete

Thats good

I am a rare case of slow splits holding me back. The stuff that I am good at is the shooting that is not much fun to practice. I am learning to shoot on the move too.

Have you try-ed looking at all the classifier stages to find a required skill that you are week at, and practicing that skill?

How are you at week hand drills? strong hand drills? and a reload moving right to left ?

What I do with our club matches is try to set up stages that we are not good at.

For the steel challenge we have been shooting a bunch of Pendulum .

[G-ManBart]

Sounds like a Master class time to me. The classic bill drill is at 7yds and you were at 10, so it makes your time even better. The big question is can you do it cold....walk up and with no practice at all do it.

That is what I want to be able to do. However, my first time at the drill today was a 2.1 with a 1.1 second draw. Seems my splits are the same but my draw was MUCH slower. After doing a few 2.1's - 2.2's I started running the 1.8's and 1.9's. I'm working on some different techniques and trying to figure out which ones will work best for me.

I think a lot of folks are the same way....slower draws when dead cold, but similar splits. I think the good thing is that if you CAN do a .80 draw, then a 1.0 or 1.1 is pretty easy, even cold, and that's a good thing. I think that also says that your vision is working for you or you'd either have really slow splits when cold, or lots of C's.

I don't do many bill drills, but if I'm feeling a little bit off, timing wise, I'll run a couple and that often gets me seeing what I need to see and locked into the gun and what it's doing.

[HSMITH]

I probably can't break 2.0 on my best day with a .9 draw using my Open gun and my splits aren't holding me back. I'd say move on. I shoot decently on the move and I move decently well, that is what allows me to compete. Transitions, movement and shooting on the move are the keys.

[spook]

I probably can't break 2.0 on my best day with a .9 draw using my Open gun and my splits aren't holding me back. I'd say move on. I shoot decently on the move and I move decently well, that is what allows me to compete. Transitions, movement and shooting on the move are the keys.

+1

I usually don't see the people with the fastest Bill Drills at the top of the match results.

[PistolPete]

I NEVER practice bill drills but after taking a class with Bruce Gray he mentioned that I should practice them from time to time. Yesterday was the first time I recorded my times and that is why I posted this topic.

Thanks,

Pete

[Flexmoney]

Alfred,

You draw is great. Your splits are just OK.

You are averaging a .20 split. That is good. But, it makes me wonder why you aren't keeping them in the Alpha at a .15 split...

[disclaimer mode]

At a savings of .05 per split...on a 32 round all paper stage full of hoser shots...you could save all of .80 on the stage. That much savings isn't likely on most stages. Realistically, the shooting might be such that a shooter would be lucky to save half that much (even if they could shoot .15 splits all day long). So, maybe you are just looking a a second to a second and a half savings over the course of a local match. That is probably not what will win or lose the match for you. And...neither will the draw. If that were the case, we'd hear shooters beating themselves up about their slow splits more often. When what we usually hear is about Mikes, No-shoots, etc.

[/disclaimer mode off]

With that said, the point I wanted to get at is that the numbers show...for some reason...that you are losing some efficiency getting the gun back on the alpha. That probably comes from your grip and stance.

While chasing the split time to get it 25% faster might not be all that important, your grip and stance are a big part of your foundation. That is something that I'd want to explore.

[Jake Di Vita]

Ditto Flex...

Faster splits won't win this game for you, however having .10 - .15 splits available for you in your bag is definitely formidable and will yield some match points to you.

[Matt Cheely]

Ditto Flex...

Faster splits won't win this game for you, however having .10 - .15 splits available for you in your bag is definitely formidable and will yield some match points to you.

Yep, the only time I really see that coming into play is on a very short speed shoot, where an extra .2 is huge and can net you the win, all other things being equal.

[Supermoto]

I like the drill when trying a different load or different springs. I think its a good way to test your grip, stance and index. But I think there is alot better way to spend your time, efficiency in movement, getting on the next target.....actually you know what, since I will be competing against you this year.....only practice Bill Drill

[PistolPete]

I like the drill when trying a different load or different springs. I think its a good way to test your grip, stance and index. But I think there is alot better way to spend your time, efficiency in movement, getting on the next target.....actually you know what, since I will be competing against you this year.....only practice Bill Drill

HAHA

Mike, how was the Todd Jarret class?

[Jake Di Vita]

Yep, the only time I really see that coming into play is on a very short speed shoot, where an extra .2 is huge and can net you the win, all other things being equal.

Ya, I think having that extra gear you can rely on is a huge advantage to have. Also gives you more options during the course of a match. Being able to take an extra target before a mover will give you at least 4 tenths every time.

[Supermoto]

HAHA

Mike, how was the Todd Jarret class?

It was good, worth every penny. It was alot to take in, I'm going to have to sort through my notes and take it one step at a time.

[shooting for M]

Just a quick addition to what a bill drill can help with, trigger freeze! I was having a pretty bad problem with this for a while so I started doing 7yd bill drills, about 3 a week, no trigger freeze since. I probably just jinxed myself, and I'm just a B class shooter, but it has helped with one thing for me. I guess the reason the trigger freeze went away was I stopped "death gripping" the gun. I think it's helped with sight tracking a bit as well.

A decent drill is a "Bill drill" at 7, 10, 15, 20, 25 then I usually go back to the 7 and try to burn, but it's not usualy any faster than the first, maybe a bit more accurate though.

Jason

[JThompson]

1.8 is pretty good. The fastest I would expect to get down to would be around 1.6

1.74 with your little Tanfo Matt. First run was 1.84 second was 1.74. I did a 1.55, but had a C,D.

[Matt Griffin]

I would advise to add two targets, and put two on each. Also, move a few steps away and enter the position. You'll find tenths and hundredths all over the place on that type of drill. Be sure and do it from both sides, and try several different foot patterns.

H.